Kelp Stabilization in Rural Alaska

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All right, I’m gonna kick us off here

 

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as people keep trickling in.

 

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Um, hi everyone.

 

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My name is Sam Garvin,

 

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and welcome to today’s Spotlight webinar on kelp

 

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stabilization in rural Alaska.

 

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Um, I’m Green Waves Director of market development.

 

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I’m based in Boston, Massachusetts,

 

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and I’m joined today by my colleague Lindsay Olson up in

 

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Alaska, as well as several project collaborators

 

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who I will introduce in just a second.

 

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Um, today we are very excited to share a recap

 

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of a joint innovation project that GreenWave

 

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and several partner collaborators, uh, led earlier this year

 

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to produce ambient temperature stabilized

 

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kelp in rural Alaska.

 

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Um, the goal of this project was

 

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to iterate on a processing line design

 

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that we had experimented with in New Haven,

 

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Connecticut in the previous year,

 

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and understand what Chan changes might be necessary to adapt

 

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to this work to work in remote communities in Alaska.

 

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I’m gonna take you through the background of the project.

 

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I’m gonna tell you how it went and what we learned,

 

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and throughout, please feel free

 

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to post questions in the chat, which we will answer, um,

 

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at the end of the presentation.

 

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And just to note, we are recording this call for anyone

 

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who can’t join us live.

 

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All right, so

 

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before I begin, I want to give a huge shout out to all

 

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of the partners who collaborated on this project, um,

 

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from the very beginning.

 

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Uh, this was a year long project

 

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and it was very, uh, designed very collaboratively

 

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with monthly meetings with all

 

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of the folks you see here on this slide.

 

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We worked with, uh, Alaska Ocean Farms, uh, a farm in Kodiak

 

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who provided the kelp for the demo

 

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and advised on some of the, the processing aspects,

 

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uh, Alaska Sea Grant.

 

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If Missy Good is on the call today,

 

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she’ll be telling you a little bit more about that program

 

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and the facility that we used for the project.

 

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Uh, Callie, the Kodiak Archipelago Leadership Institute was

 

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instrumental in giving us feedback on how to optimize all

 

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of the processing equipment you’re gonna see today

 

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for the rural context.

 

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And then macro oceans, uh,

 

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Mackey Perkins is here to speak with us.

 

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Macro oceans was the buyer of kelp that was, uh, stabilized

 

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as part of this project, the designer of the,

 

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uh, stabilization process.

 

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And, um, he will tell you, Matthew will tell you more about

 

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what the kelp is going toward and,

 

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and kind of the implications

 

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of ambient temperature stabilization for his markets.

 

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So, to give you some background, um, the, the,

 

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this project came about

 

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because GreenWave has identified that one

 

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of the biggest problems that farmers, uh,

 

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face is accessing markets.

 

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And today, most farmers are doing one tiny piece

 

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of the value chain, and it’s oftentimes not a

 

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particularly profitable one.

 

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Um, they have very little cost over a control,

 

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rather over the cost or the quality

 

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or the timing of, um, a lot of the other aspects

 

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of this value chain.

 

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And so, without processing

 

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or stabilization infrastructure, farmers have

 

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to sell a huge amount of raw kelp in a very short period

 

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of time, which leaves them for few opportunities

 

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for value creation and business development.

 

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Every player in this seaweed value

 

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chain really has to make money.

 

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But the history of land-based agriculture tells us

 

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that in a supply chain

 

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where farmers are only doing this one tiny piece,

 

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farmers often miss out on a lot of

 

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that value that’s being created.

 

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I’m sorry, I’m having a little trouble

 

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advancing my slides here.

 

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One second. There we go. Alright.

 

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Um, and this problem right now is really exacerbated

 

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by the fact that in particularly in the rural context,

 

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these middle stages of the supply chain,

 

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the primary processing

 

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and stable storage phases are actually missing.

 

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They’re just completely not there.

 

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The farmers aren’t able to do it themselves.

 

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The buyers who are coming in oftentimes don’t have the

 

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interest or ability to do that.

 

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And so there’s a gap and,

 

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and the seaweed that is being produced in Alaska

 

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and particularly in rural communities,

 

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cannot reach the market.

 

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So the goal of this project was to figure out,

 

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is there something we can do to fill this gap?

 

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And ideally, something that we can do

 

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that farmers could actually themselves own and operate.

 

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Um, so, uh, when you hear our, our conversation today,

 

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we are gonna be talking about the farming side,

 

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but primary processing

 

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and stable storage is really the, the focus

 

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of the, the innovation.

 

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Um, and our vision here is

 

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that maybe someday farmers in rural communities could

 

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actually own this entire middle section of the value chain,

 

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and therefore have a lot more opportunity

 

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for value creation.

 

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So getting back to this idea of, of primary processing

 

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and stable storage, there is a, a process

 

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that happens in the middle there

 

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that is called stabilization.

 

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And this is a super, super critical step in the value chain

 

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because it is the transformation of raw seaweed

 

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to stable seaweed that allows it

 

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to then be used further down the chain for, uh,

 

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value added products.

 

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So in a value chain, each step can be thought of

 

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as a way of adding value.

 

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And a stabilization step is a really, is like a linchpin

 

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to everything else that comes downstream.

 

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Uh, the official definition of stabilization is a process

 

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of reducing the likelihood that something will change,

 

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decline or fail.

 

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So specific to seaweed, this is the physical method

 

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of preserving the quality

 

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and extending the natural shelf life

 

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of kelp from hours to months.

 

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And this makes it possible to, again,

 

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turn kelp from something that, that has

 

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to be used immediately to something

 

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that could be used year round to create products

 

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and sell them to downstream consumers.

 

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The reality is that most businesses

 

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and consumers are really not interested in

 

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or prepared to handle huge volumes of raw,

 

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wet agricultural commodities.

 

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So people who are further up the supply chain,

 

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that’s farmers and people most closely partnered

 

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with farmers, really have to take this on in order to, uh,

 

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have help everyone be able to access markets.

 

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So some considerations when we started out this project, um,

 

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we wanted to to ask ourselves

 

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what primary processing is required

 

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for stabilization to occur?

 

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So there’s are slightly different things.

 

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Primary processing is the mechanical, uh, you know, uh,

 

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size reduction, for example, that needs to happen in order

 

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for the stabilization method to be effective.

 

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We also were really concerned with the cost to purchase

 

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or set up this stabilization process, um,

 

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or the capital expenditure required.

 

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If we are trying to make this accessible to farmers

 

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and rural communities, it needs to be inexpensive.

 

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Um, and it also needs to be inexpensive to operate.

 

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So that gets to the operational costs.

 

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So utilities, fresh water, labor, labor, other supplies

 

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that you might need, every time you turn it

 

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on, it costs you money.

 

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And we wanna keep that down too.

 

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Next, how much does it cost to actually store the product?

 

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So we’ll talk about ambient temperature in a little bit,

 

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but this is really a key here.

 

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Sometimes people think, oh, well, once I freeze my kelp,

 

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I’m done and I’m, and I

 

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don’t need to worry about it anymore.

 

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But that’s actually not true.

 

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Frozen kelp costs incredible amount of money

 

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to store over months and years,

 

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and it can get so expensive that it, it,

 

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it exceeds the value of the kelp itself.

 

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So we really wanna be conscious of that storage time

 

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after processing with whatever stabilization method we used,

 

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we really wanted to think about degradation as well.

 

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So stabilization helps preserve quality,

 

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but in most cases, not all

 

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of the things are actually preserved.

 

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Some, some stabilization methods are better

 

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for certain compounds

 

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and other stabilization methods are better for others.

 

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So we wanted to design, uh, make sure

 

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that we were using a stabilization method that was correct

 

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for macro oceans for the,

 

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the products we’re making at the end of the day.

 

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And that gets us to our last point,

 

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what do the customers need?

 

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So all of this has to be driven by, uh,

 

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by customer requirements, by the people

 

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who are ultimately going to buy the kelp

 

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or it, you know, it, the, that

 

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that chain is still broken and doesn’t connect.

 

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Stabilization challenges that exist today, are we, we kind

 

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of lump it into three buckets, timing, infrastructure,

 

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and geography.

 

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So on the timing side, kelp season is very short.

 

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The harvest is usually over the course

 

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of about a month or two.

 

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And all that kelp needs to come out

 

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of the water all at the same time.

 

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It then has a very shelf short shelf life, so needs

 

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to be processed in hours, not not days.

 

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And there’s a lot of just in time

 

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coordination that needs to happen.

 

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So as soon as that kelp comes outta the water, there has

 

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to be processing available to do it,

 

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which means we ideally would like that to be distributed so

 

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that all the processing can can happen, uh, at once instead

 

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of waiting in line for a, for a bottleneck.

 

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From the infrastructure perspective, most forms

 

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of stabilization technology are,

 

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do have this limited capacity.

 

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They, there is a bottleneck there to, to get in line

 

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for the processing and, and the stabilization.

 

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A lot of stabilization methods such as freezing

 

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or drying are very energy intensive.

 

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They require a lot of labor, they’re expensive, and

 

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because they are expensive and labor intensive

 

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and all of that, you can’t have a lot of them.

 

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They’re, they’re geographically located in one place.

 

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So with this project, we are looking to overcome all

 

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of the cha challenges

 

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and address the constraints

 

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that we just talked about on the previous slide.

 

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Wet ambient temperature stabilization is really, uh,

 

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checks a lot of the boxes

 

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for the constraints we were just talking about.

 

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It has, uh, minimal energy and labor requirements, uh,

 

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because you are taking the wet kelp

 

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and you’re not really doing that much to it.

 

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Usually there is a size reduction step that is required

 

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to take the wet kelp, um, break it into smaller pieces so

 

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that those smaller pieces can have contact with the reagent

 

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or with whatever it is that’s,

 

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that’s doing the stabilization.

 

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And the types are generally either fermentation,

 

239

00:10:20.775 –> 00:10:24.515

so we’re adding a bacteria of some kind that is, um,

 

240

00:10:24.935 –> 00:10:26.995

you know, making it sort of like the yogurt that you buy.

 

241

00:10:27.065 –> 00:10:28.755

It’s, it’s alive, uh,

 

242

00:10:28.775 –> 00:10:31.355

but it is changing very, very, very slowly.

 

243

00:10:31.575 –> 00:10:34.715

And so it, it, that sort serves as a method of preservation.

 

244

00:10:35.225 –> 00:10:37.595

There’s also, um, chemical reagents or

 

245

00:10:37.655 –> 00:10:39.755

or other sort of recipes that

 

246

00:10:39.755 –> 00:10:41.915

where you add additional compounds

 

247

00:10:42.055 –> 00:10:45.795

and that, um, usually, uh, as I was saying

 

248

00:10:45.795 –> 00:10:47.315

with certain compounds end up

 

249

00:10:47.355 –> 00:10:48.635

surviving and other ones don’t.

 

250

00:10:48.935 –> 00:10:51.835

The stabilization usually comes from the reagents reacting

 

251

00:10:51.835 –> 00:10:54.115

with certain things in the kelp to prevent degradation

 

252

00:10:54.135 –> 00:10:56.475

and then preserving the other ones that remain

 

253

00:10:56.475 –> 00:11:00.935

and they’re not affected, um, ambient temperature.

 

254

00:11:01.075 –> 00:11:04.015

So the idea here is that whatever we add,

 

255

00:11:04.015 –> 00:11:06.655

whether it’s fermentation or chemicals, uh,

 

256

00:11:06.795 –> 00:11:09.375

it does not require climate controlled storage

 

257

00:11:09.545 –> 00:11:10.975

after it’s all been mixed together.

 

258

00:11:11.155 –> 00:11:14.135

And this saves an immense amount of headache in terms of

 

259

00:11:14.735 –> 00:11:16.495

logistics, storage costs.

 

260

00:11:17.235 –> 00:11:21.675

Um, uh, it’s, it’s just so much easier to be able

 

261

00:11:21.675 –> 00:11:25.435

to leave your IBC totes or your barrels outside, um,

 

262

00:11:25.575 –> 00:11:27.875

or in a non climate controlled warehouse that have

 

263

00:11:27.875 –> 00:11:29.435

to worry about, well, where am I storing this up

 

264

00:11:29.435 –> 00:11:30.755

and how am I shipping it such

 

265

00:11:30.755 –> 00:11:32.155

that I’m maintaining a temperature?

 

266

00:11:33.615 –> 00:11:34.715

One of the few downsides

 

267

00:11:34.715 –> 00:11:36.115

to ambient temperature stabilization

 

268

00:11:36.115 –> 00:11:37.395

that I do wanna call out though is

 

269

00:11:37.395 –> 00:11:38.795

that we are usually adding weight.

 

270

00:11:39.095 –> 00:11:42.475

So you get the benefit of not having

 

271

00:11:42.475 –> 00:11:46.195

to ship in particular cold storage, uh, or climate control,

 

272

00:11:46.695 –> 00:11:50.195

but you are usually in order to get that, um, reagent

 

273

00:11:50.195 –> 00:11:52.195

or the fermentation mechanism to,

 

274

00:11:52.295 –> 00:11:56.165

to distribute itself in the, the, uh, vessels,

 

275

00:11:56.465 –> 00:11:58.205

you’re usually having to add water

 

276

00:11:58.305 –> 00:12:01.845

or some other liquid in order to get that to, to distribute.

 

277

00:12:02.025 –> 00:12:03.325

So there is that,

 

278

00:12:06.755 –> 00:12:08.615

all right, to get to the, to the meat of the project.

 

279

00:12:08.795 –> 00:12:10.655

So here’s, here was the scope of the project.

 

280

00:12:11.795 –> 00:12:13.945

We wanted to research

 

281

00:12:13.965 –> 00:12:15.945

and select equipment that would efficiently,

 

282

00:12:15.975 –> 00:12:18.625

efficiently reduce whole kelp into a slurry.

 

283

00:12:19.325 –> 00:12:22.825

Um, this slurry is just chopped up kelp, that’s it.

 

284

00:12:23.645 –> 00:12:27.505

We then wanted to mix that with, uh, macro oceans reagents

 

285

00:12:27.845 –> 00:12:30.705

and ship it to California at ambient temperature

 

286

00:12:30.725 –> 00:12:33.545

and essentially see how does that go.

 

287

00:12:33.645 –> 00:12:35.145

So we’re, we’re gonna hear from Matthew about

 

288

00:12:35.145 –> 00:12:36.225

how did, how did that go?

 

289

00:12:36.805 –> 00:12:38.425

Did it stabilize? Um,

 

290

00:12:39.245 –> 00:12:40.905

and so that was a very important point

 

291

00:12:40.905 –> 00:12:42.545

of testing it at a larger scale

 

292

00:12:42.545 –> 00:12:43.705

than we’d ever done it in the past.

 

293

00:12:43.845 –> 00:12:45.905

So when we’ve previously done this work with Matthew,

 

294

00:12:46.405 –> 00:12:49.585

we did, I think 2000 pounds or, or something to that effect,

 

295

00:12:49.605 –> 00:12:51.585

and this time it was 5,000 pounds.

 

296

00:12:51.885 –> 00:12:53.065

So we more than doubled it.

 

297

00:12:53.085 –> 00:12:55.265

And things can change when you, when you scale up.

 

298

00:12:55.265 –> 00:12:56.825

So that was a, a big part of this project.

 

299

00:12:58.145 –> 00:12:59.645

The other big part of this project was

 

300

00:12:59.645 –> 00:13:00.725

to demonstrate the line

 

301

00:13:00.785 –> 00:13:03.565

for rural farmers get feedback and iterate.

 

302

00:13:03.785 –> 00:13:05.645

The whole point of this was we wanted to make something

 

303

00:13:05.645 –> 00:13:09.205

that’s realistic to implement all over Alaska

 

304

00:13:09.425 –> 00:13:10.685

and in rural communities.

 

305

00:13:11.065 –> 00:13:13.485

So the feedback aspect was really important

 

306

00:13:13.485 –> 00:13:15.325

because we knew we weren’t gonna get it right the first time

 

307

00:13:15.505 –> 00:13:17.525

and we wanted to, um, you know,

 

308

00:13:17.765 –> 00:13:19.485

iterate while we still had grant funding

 

309

00:13:19.505 –> 00:13:20.605

to then try it again.

 

310

00:13:21.485 –> 00:13:23.105

And then of course, uh,

 

311

00:13:23.135 –> 00:13:27.105

because this is a project funded through, uh,

 

312

00:13:27.205 –> 00:13:28.265

the Build Back Better Funding

 

313

00:13:28.405 –> 00:13:31.425

and Alaska Fisheries Development Foundation, we wanted

 

314

00:13:31.425 –> 00:13:34.505

to open source the processing line design and SOPs.

 

315

00:13:34.505 –> 00:13:36.025

And because you are registered for this webinar,

 

316

00:13:36.285 –> 00:13:40.905

you will receive, um, the PDF of that when we, uh,

 

317

00:13:40.905 –> 00:13:42.065

send you the webinar recording.

 

318

00:13:46.245 –> 00:13:48.825

So the first piece of this, this size reduction, um,

 

319

00:13:48.825 –> 00:13:51.305

this was really, really critical piece.

 

320

00:13:51.325 –> 00:13:53.105

We tested all kinds of equipment,

 

321

00:13:53.105 –> 00:13:54.705

which I will go into in the next slide,

 

322

00:13:55.125 –> 00:13:58.345

but we had some pretty stringent criteria for

 

323

00:13:58.345 –> 00:13:59.745

what we wanted for size reduction.

 

324

00:13:59.885 –> 00:14:01.225

And this was based on things

 

325

00:14:01.225 –> 00:14:04.865

that we’ve seen from other types of size reduction, uh, used

 

326

00:14:05.085 –> 00:14:07.945

for food or, or in other situations where, um,

 

327

00:14:07.945 –> 00:14:09.945

there might be multiple steps involved

 

328

00:14:10.005 –> 00:14:11.865

or things would get clogged or they were expensive.

 

329

00:14:11.865 –> 00:14:14.265

And so remember back to those criteria for

 

330

00:14:14.265 –> 00:14:15.345

what were we aiming for?

 

331

00:14:15.845 –> 00:14:17.905

We wanted a size reduction equipment

 

332

00:14:17.905 –> 00:14:20.425

that could handle whole kelp that was inexpensive,

 

333

00:14:20.535 –> 00:14:22.345

that was compact, that was durable,

 

334

00:14:22.495 –> 00:14:23.745

that required minimal maintenance

 

335

00:14:23.995 –> 00:14:25.865

where you could get it food safe.

 

336

00:14:26.005 –> 00:14:28.705

So like a stainless steel option, um,

 

337

00:14:29.115 –> 00:14:31.825

where there was no water required for conveyance.

 

338

00:14:31.925 –> 00:14:35.745

So a lot of the machineries, uh, don’t work if you just put,

 

339

00:14:35.885 –> 00:14:38.905

put the kelp in without a liquid to, to transport it from,

 

340

00:14:38.935 –> 00:14:39.945

from one point to another.

 

341

00:14:41.045 –> 00:14:42.885

Flexible power options, because power can be

 

342

00:14:42.885 –> 00:14:44.365

so variable in rural contexts.

 

343

00:14:45.405 –> 00:14:47.025

Output particle size control.

 

344

00:14:47.085 –> 00:14:50.585

So we knew what size particles, uh, macro oceans needed,

 

345

00:14:50.685 –> 00:14:53.725

but we also want it to be versatile in case another customer

 

346

00:14:53.725 –> 00:14:56.085

with a different type of ambient temperature stabilization

 

347

00:14:56.655 –> 00:14:59.005

might, uh, might want a different particle size.

 

348

00:14:59.425 –> 00:15:01.245

And then we also wanted something that was scalable.

 

349

00:15:01.425 –> 00:15:06.145

So we used, uh, a small scale size reduction, uh,

 

350

00:15:06.145 –> 00:15:07.185

machine for this pilot,

 

351

00:15:07.285 –> 00:15:10.185

but we wanted something that was available in larger sizes.

 

352

00:15:10.445 –> 00:15:13.385

So if it worked, we were able to, to buy the next size up

 

353

00:15:13.405 –> 00:15:15.425

for the next time we, we did it.

 

354

00:15:18.875 –> 00:15:20.215

Uh, we tried all kinds of things.

 

355

00:15:21.155 –> 00:15:23.895

We tried industrial sized garbage disposals.

 

356

00:15:24.065 –> 00:15:26.095

Those weren’t great because they required water

 

357

00:15:26.155 –> 00:15:28.295

to convey the material through the machine, just like,

 

358

00:15:28.295 –> 00:15:29.295

just like the one in your sink.

 

359

00:15:29.995 –> 00:15:33.535

Um, we try to meet grinder that has an auger, um,

 

360

00:15:33.675 –> 00:15:35.975

but the kelp kind of wrapped around it

 

361

00:15:36.035 –> 00:15:37.135

and, and wouldn’t grind.

 

362

00:15:37.155 –> 00:15:39.135

And we didn’t really wanna do any pre-processing

 

363

00:15:39.215 –> 00:15:41.695

’cause that adds more steps, more labor, more money.

 

364

00:15:42.365 –> 00:15:43.465

We tried a wood shipper,

 

365

00:15:43.525 –> 00:15:45.625

but kelp really isn’t rigid enough to go

 

366

00:15:45.625 –> 00:15:47.425

through the machine, and so it clogs.

 

367

00:15:48.205 –> 00:15:50.785

We tried an Ursel Cora, which has been used

 

368

00:15:50.785 –> 00:15:52.785

before, um, for food purposes.

 

369

00:15:53.285 –> 00:15:56.665

And honestly it works great, but it’s expensive.

 

370

00:15:56.805 –> 00:16:00.025

The the cutting heads also are, um, they’re blades

 

371

00:16:00.025 –> 00:16:02.665

and so they dull easily and it was prone to clogging.

 

372

00:16:03.325 –> 00:16:05.705

And then we also tried a dual shaft shredder

 

373

00:16:05.705 –> 00:16:06.905

that also worked pretty well,

 

374

00:16:07.045 –> 00:16:09.305

but it’s much bigger, much heavier

 

375

00:16:09.565 –> 00:16:12.945

and much more expensive than what we actually ended up as.

 

376

00:16:13.285 –> 00:16:15.745

Uh, also I’d like to give credit to my colleague,

 

377

00:16:15.765 –> 00:16:16.825

uh, Toby Shepherd Block.

 

378

00:16:16.825 –> 00:16:17.825

You see him there in that picture.

 

379

00:16:17.825 –> 00:16:21.505

That’s him testing out various machines in, in New Haven.

 

380

00:16:22.045 –> 00:16:23.865

Um, and you can actually see the machine we ended up

 

381

00:16:23.865 –> 00:16:26.385

with in his, to his right, our left.

 

382

00:16:28.245 –> 00:16:31.665

Uh, so here it is. This is the Vincent vs eight shredder.

 

383

00:16:32.375 –> 00:16:35.465

It’s, uh, clocks. It clocks in at 490 pounds.

 

384

00:16:35.815 –> 00:16:38.465

It’s about four feet long, two feet high.

 

385

00:16:39.215 –> 00:16:42.065

It’s, uh, designed for bulky wet materials.

 

386

00:16:42.065 –> 00:16:43.665

This is like why it exists.

 

387

00:16:44.765 –> 00:16:46.825

And it has this really interesting design

 

388

00:16:46.955 –> 00:16:49.865

where it smashes the kelp rather than cuts it.

 

389

00:16:49.865 –> 00:16:51.505

So there are no blades involved.

 

390

00:16:51.575 –> 00:16:53.785

It’s these like metal bars, uh,

 

391

00:16:53.785 –> 00:16:55.945

stainless steel bars on a rotating shaft.

 

392

00:16:56.605 –> 00:17:00.185

And, uh, the, the kelp feeds in through,

 

393

00:17:00.185 –> 00:17:03.385

through the eight foot square in feed

 

394

00:17:03.385 –> 00:17:04.945

that you see up, up top there.

 

395

00:17:05.525 –> 00:17:08.185

And then, um, there’s a dog leg chute

 

396

00:17:08.185 –> 00:17:10.225

that is added onto it for, for safety.

 

397

00:17:11.205 –> 00:17:14.625

One of the things that made this a really easy option for us

 

398

00:17:14.645 –> 00:17:16.945

to try out was that this company, um,

 

399

00:17:17.005 –> 00:17:18.385

has a try before you buy option.

 

400

00:17:18.405 –> 00:17:20.585

So we did not actually purchase this as part

 

401

00:17:20.585 –> 00:17:21.785

of the grant, but we rented it.

 

402

00:17:21.785 –> 00:17:26.065

We rented it for $178 a week. Um, we shipped it to Kodiak.

 

403

00:17:26.065 –> 00:17:28.625

We tried it, we even, you were allowed to modify it.

 

404

00:17:28.625 –> 00:17:30.465

And then we sent it back to them when we were done.

 

405

00:17:31.005 –> 00:17:32.865

And this coming year, we’re hoping

 

406

00:17:32.865 –> 00:17:35.065

to buy the next version up from that.

 

407

00:17:35.165 –> 00:17:36.385

So we really appreciated the

 

408

00:17:36.385 –> 00:17:37.465

opportunity to get to try it out.

 

409

00:17:39.825 –> 00:17:41.695

Other equipment we used for this.

 

410

00:17:41.755 –> 00:17:43.055

So again, our goal is

 

411

00:17:43.055 –> 00:17:46.135

to design something like the minimum viable processing line,

 

412

00:17:46.135 –> 00:17:48.855

something that was super small that was right sized

 

413

00:17:48.985 –> 00:17:51.885

for farms in rural communities that are just starting out.

 

414

00:17:52.025 –> 00:17:56.325

So this, this line itself is not one that you would use

 

415

00:17:56.325 –> 00:17:57.605

for hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

416

00:17:57.675 –> 00:17:58.965

It’s ones that, it’s one that you would use

 

417

00:17:58.965 –> 00:18:00.245

for tens of thousands of pounds.

 

418

00:18:00.865 –> 00:18:04.405

Um, and, and then with very low input of capital.

 

419

00:18:04.585 –> 00:18:09.085

So, uh, things we use in addition to the shredder,

 

420

00:18:09.085 –> 00:18:11.845

there was this shredder stand to lift it off the ground kind

 

421

00:18:11.845 –> 00:18:13.005

of improves the ergonomics.

 

422

00:18:13.005 –> 00:18:16.765

A it, uh, transfer vessels, five gallon buckets, very fancy.

 

423

00:18:17.625 –> 00:18:22.165

Uh, we used these 55 gallon blue barrels for storage.

 

424

00:18:22.625 –> 00:18:26.325

And then for mixing the kelp slurry with the reagent,

 

425

00:18:26.345 –> 00:18:28.805

we use a right angle drill and a mixer paddle.

 

426

00:18:28.835 –> 00:18:31.845

It’s designed for, for, um, cement.

 

427

00:18:32.385 –> 00:18:33.525

Uh, but they do make food.

 

428

00:18:33.525 –> 00:18:35.525

They do make stainless steel food grade versions.

 

429

00:18:36.145 –> 00:18:38.485

We also, uh, used a floor scale.

 

430

00:18:38.705 –> 00:18:41.565

So that’s, uh, about $1,600.

 

431

00:18:41.945 –> 00:18:44.965

So all in, uh, about, uh,

 

432

00:18:46.485 –> 00:18:48.535

this was a little under $2,000.

 

433

00:18:48.755 –> 00:18:52.295

And then the cost of, so if you were to buy this plus the,

 

434

00:18:52.475 –> 00:18:55.535

uh, shredder you’re looking at all in $20,000.

 

435

00:18:59.815 –> 00:19:01.795

And, uh, so this demo, uh,

 

436

00:19:01.855 –> 00:19:05.155

or the, the, the, the equipment itself was set up in the,

 

437

00:19:06.015 –> 00:19:08.755

uh, Kodiak Marine Science Center pilot plant,

 

438

00:19:08.765 –> 00:19:10.235

which is run by Alaska Sea Grant.

 

439

00:19:10.295 –> 00:19:12.595

And Missy Grant is here to, uh, uh, sorry,

 

440

00:19:12.595 –> 00:19:15.315

Missy Good is here to tell us a little bit more about Alaska

 

441

00:19:15.415 –> 00:19:17.075

Sea Grant and the pilot plant.

 

442

00:19:17.745 –> 00:19:20.235

Yeah, thanks, Sam. We are really happy to partner

 

443

00:19:20.385 –> 00:19:22.435

with GreenWave and Macro Oceans on this project.

 

444

00:19:22.975 –> 00:19:25.115

As you could see, we have the Kodiak Seafood

 

445

00:19:25.295 –> 00:19:28.835

and Marine Science Center, which is a good size facility

 

446

00:19:29.015 –> 00:19:30.435

and it’s legislatively mandated

 

447

00:19:30.435 –> 00:19:32.795

to support the seafood processing industry.

 

448

00:19:33.255 –> 00:19:37.275

Um, so we not only support seafood processing activities,

 

449

00:19:37.295 –> 00:19:39.635

we host trainings and workshops as well.

 

450

00:19:39.655 –> 00:19:41.755

And we support mariculture broadly.

 

451

00:19:42.415 –> 00:19:44.995

I’m the mariculture specialist with Alaska Sea Grant

 

452

00:19:45.015 –> 00:19:47.315

and the Kodiak Seafood and Marine Science Center.

 

453

00:19:47.615 –> 00:19:49.675

Um, and so it’s easy for us to work together

 

454

00:19:49.815 –> 00:19:51.475

and develop these partnerships.

 

455

00:19:51.655 –> 00:19:53.315

Um, for those of you that don’t know,

 

456

00:19:53.495 –> 00:19:56.115

Alaska Sea Grant is a partnership between NOAA

 

457

00:19:56.175 –> 00:19:58.595

and the University of Alaska Fairbanks.

 

458

00:19:58.975 –> 00:20:02.315

Um, if you’d like to learn more about the science center,

 

459

00:20:02.845 –> 00:20:03.915

about what we do

 

460

00:20:04.095 –> 00:20:06.235

or how we could support additional efforts,

 

461

00:20:06.475 –> 00:20:08.395

I will put my email address in the chat

 

462

00:20:08.415 –> 00:20:09.555

and please reach out to me.

 

463

00:20:09.815 –> 00:20:10.815

Thanks, Sam.

 

464

00:20:12.085 –> 00:20:12.985

Thanks, Missy.

 

465

00:20:17.315 –> 00:20:20.045

Okay, so we set up that line in the processing plant,

 

466

00:20:20.225 –> 00:20:23.605

and, uh, then we had a demo day, uh, and in May.

 

467

00:20:24.225 –> 00:20:26.845

And, uh, the agenda was, you know, we,

 

468

00:20:26.865 –> 00:20:30.285

we brought in people from 22, I believe, 1722,

 

469

00:20:30.285 –> 00:20:31.405

something in that range.

 

470

00:20:31.425 –> 00:20:33.885

People, uh, from all over the country,

 

471

00:20:34.225 –> 00:20:36.045

but with a focus on rural communities

 

472

00:20:36.465 –> 00:20:39.805

and, uh, really got people very

 

473

00:20:39.805 –> 00:20:41.245

hands-on with this equipment.

 

474

00:20:41.745 –> 00:20:44.525

Um, we did an equipment walkthrough, uh,

 

475

00:20:44.525 –> 00:20:46.765

where we talked about what all the pieces of equipment were,

 

476

00:20:46.825 –> 00:20:48.525

and then we got in there

 

477

00:20:48.625 –> 00:20:50.085

and we actually processed some kelp.

 

478

00:20:50.185 –> 00:20:52.445

So here you can see our participants, uh,

 

479

00:20:52.445 –> 00:20:54.765

putting the kelp into the shredder.

 

480

00:20:55.145 –> 00:20:57.965

Uh, then you see the slurry that were of the chopped kelp

 

481

00:20:57.985 –> 00:20:59.605

before anything has been mixed into it.

 

482

00:20:59.825 –> 00:21:03.205

And then on the far, uh, right side, that is the, the barrel

 

483

00:21:03.275 –> 00:21:05.685

with the, the reagent mixed in.

 

484

00:21:06.225 –> 00:21:08.845

And one of our participants is using that right angle drill

 

485

00:21:08.845 –> 00:21:10.805

to make sure it got mixed together.

 

486

00:21:14.765 –> 00:21:15.875

After the demo and

 

487

00:21:15.875 –> 00:21:17.875

after the hands-on portion, we had a discussion.

 

488

00:21:17.935 –> 00:21:19.635

We talked about what worked well, what didn’t,

 

489

00:21:19.865 –> 00:21:22.115

what might be the challenges to do this at speed

 

490

00:21:22.115 –> 00:21:24.795

or at scale, how could we make it more efficient?

 

491

00:21:25.005 –> 00:21:26.795

Would this work in the region

 

492

00:21:26.795 –> 00:21:28.115

where the participants were from

 

493

00:21:28.775 –> 00:21:32.595

and what challenges there might be to adapt the system

 

494

00:21:32.815 –> 00:21:34.235

to their contexts?

 

495

00:21:36.945 –> 00:21:41.425

And we had, uh, a few changes as a result,

 

496

00:21:41.525 –> 00:21:43.385

and we actually had the opportunity to

 

497

00:21:44.485 –> 00:21:46.465

try out those changes in real life.

 

498

00:21:46.685 –> 00:21:48.345

Uh, thanks to Macro Oceans

 

499

00:21:48.345 –> 00:21:50.865

who made an additional larger purchase from, uh,

 

500

00:21:50.865 –> 00:21:54.625

the Kodiak region after this pilot was done, as well

 

501

00:21:54.625 –> 00:21:58.225

as we used this line for another BIOS stimulant customer in,

 

502

00:21:58.485 –> 00:22:02.265

in, who was also purchasing from Kodiak, a different style

 

503

00:22:02.445 –> 00:22:04.345

of ambient temperature stabilization,

 

504

00:22:04.445 –> 00:22:05.905

but the exact same equipment.

 

505

00:22:05.905 –> 00:22:08.505

So that was a really awesome way to validate this.

 

506

00:22:08.965 –> 00:22:10.785

Um, but the changes that we made as a result

 

507

00:22:10.785 –> 00:22:14.105

of the demo day feedback were, um, we made some changes

 

508

00:22:14.405 –> 00:22:15.425

to the conveyance.

 

509

00:22:15.685 –> 00:22:18.065

So one of the pieces of the feedback was, wow, it’s a lot

 

510

00:22:18.065 –> 00:22:20.625

of work to, to put the help in, um,

 

511

00:22:21.005 –> 00:22:23.025

and to, to move it from place to place.

 

512

00:22:23.125 –> 00:22:26.545

And so we borrowed an auger from another buyer in the Kodiak

 

513

00:22:26.545 –> 00:22:28.225

area, blue Evolution, and

 

514

00:22:28.375 –> 00:22:32.225

that helped get the kelp from the shredder into the barrels

 

515

00:22:32.225 –> 00:22:33.385

or totes that we were using.

 

516

00:22:34.325 –> 00:22:38.105

We also had some custom, uh, fabricated flanges

 

517

00:22:38.105 –> 00:22:39.865

and funnels made very, very simple.

 

518

00:22:40.135 –> 00:22:43.105

Literally just three pieces of metal, four pieces of metal,

 

519

00:22:43.485 –> 00:22:44.945

uh, connected together,

 

520

00:22:45.285 –> 00:22:46.865

and that helped ensure that the shredded

 

521

00:22:46.865 –> 00:22:47.985

kelp got where it needed to go.

 

522

00:22:49.365 –> 00:22:51.825

We, uh, also added an infeed table.

 

523

00:22:52.085 –> 00:22:55.585

So, uh, initially when we were using the equipment,

 

524

00:22:55.585 –> 00:22:59.845

it does have that kind of narrow eight inch, uh, shoot,

 

525

00:23:00.175 –> 00:23:02.085

which on the larger models is larger.

 

526

00:23:02.465 –> 00:23:04.565

Um, but what we were finding was that it was kind

 

527

00:23:04.565 –> 00:23:08.285

of challenging to hand feed that, uh, shoot effectively.

 

528

00:23:08.425 –> 00:23:12.005

And so we added a, a kind of a, a, uh, yeah,

 

529

00:23:12.125 –> 00:23:14.405

a table on which kelp could be loaded

 

530

00:23:14.545 –> 00:23:18.565

and then pushed into the, uh, machine.

 

531

00:23:18.905 –> 00:23:20.965

And so that allowed us to get up

 

532

00:23:21.025 –> 00:23:23.485

to about 2000 pounds per hour.

 

533

00:23:23.665 –> 00:23:24.805

So in the demo day,

 

534

00:23:24.825 –> 00:23:26.365

we were only doing about a thousand pounds,

 

535

00:23:26.705 –> 00:23:28.125

but with these small improvements

 

536

00:23:28.125 –> 00:23:29.805

and iterations, we got up to 2000 pounds,

 

537

00:23:29.805 –> 00:23:30.885

and that was really amazing

 

538

00:23:30.905 –> 00:23:32.885

to see in such a short period of time.

 

539

00:23:33.625 –> 00:23:37.485

Um, I do have a video here of the modified line,

 

540

00:23:37.745 –> 00:23:39.045

so let’s see if it plays.

 

541

00:23:48.940 –> 00:23:51.705

So this is on the larger scale processing line.

 

542

00:23:52.295 –> 00:23:54.585

Just a quick taste of, of what we’re doing there.

 

543

00:24:00.795 –> 00:24:03.475

All right. So kelp has been processed.

 

544

00:24:04.235 –> 00:24:06.755

I would love to hand it off to Matthew Perkins

 

545

00:24:06.755 –> 00:24:10.235

of Macro Oceans to say a bit more about what happened to

 

546

00:24:10.235 –> 00:24:14.845

that s smashed up kelp and what macro ocean’s, uh, process

 

547

00:24:15.025 –> 00:24:16.085

and markets are in general.

 

548

00:24:17.635 –> 00:24:21.205

Awesome. Thank you Sam, for guiding us through this talk.

 

549

00:24:21.225 –> 00:24:23.805

And it’s been great to collaborate with GreenWave

 

550

00:24:23.825 –> 00:24:26.125

and all the partners on this project, uh,

 

551

00:24:26.125 –> 00:24:28.525

which has definitely been, uh, a really great way

 

552

00:24:28.525 –> 00:24:32.085

to learn about how products get from farm all the way

 

553

00:24:32.145 –> 00:24:33.325

to end markets.

 

554

00:24:33.625 –> 00:24:37.045

Um, and, uh, yeah, so Macros is a, uh,

 

555

00:24:37.195 –> 00:24:38.445

bioprocessing company.

 

556

00:24:38.785 –> 00:24:42.205

We are based in, uh, California, in Sacramento,

 

557

00:24:42.545 –> 00:24:46.485

and we transform kalp into low carbon biomaterials.

 

558

00:24:46.865 –> 00:24:51.325

Um, and so most of what we’ve done is really focus on, uh,

 

559

00:24:51.665 –> 00:24:55.085

trying to create things that folks want in the market.

 

560

00:24:55.155 –> 00:24:59.365

Obviously without end buyers, uh, you don’t end up, uh,

 

561

00:24:59.545 –> 00:25:00.645

having a real business.

 

562

00:25:00.745 –> 00:25:02.445

Um, so we’ve put a lot of effort into that.

 

563

00:25:02.665 –> 00:25:05.685

And so just to situate us in the value chain,

 

564

00:25:05.745 –> 00:25:07.405

we don’t grow any seaweed.

 

565

00:25:07.405 –> 00:25:10.605

We buy seaweed, we don’t make anything consumer facing.

 

566

00:25:11.185 –> 00:25:15.685

Um, we sell biomaterials to downstream customers, uh,

 

567

00:25:15.905 –> 00:25:19.005

you know, folks who are actually incorporating, uh,

 

568

00:25:19.005 –> 00:25:23.445

these kelp derivatives into products for, uh, consumers.

 

569

00:25:23.745 –> 00:25:25.285

So, uh, yeah.

 

570

00:25:25.465 –> 00:25:26.885

So anyway, so we, uh,

 

571

00:25:27.325 –> 00:25:30.165

realized pretty early on in our process that we wanted to,

 

572

00:25:30.705 –> 00:25:35.085

uh, eliminate freezing and drying of seaweed, um, freezing

 

573

00:25:35.085 –> 00:25:37.045

because, uh, it’s energy intensive

 

574

00:25:37.305 –> 00:25:39.005

and you have to pay for storage every

 

575

00:25:39.005 –> 00:25:40.165

month, which is really expensive.

 

576

00:25:40.545 –> 00:25:42.245

Um, and it doesn’t scale particularly well.

 

577

00:25:42.585 –> 00:25:44.725

Uh, and, uh, drying, we wanted to eliminate

 

578

00:25:44.725 –> 00:25:47.565

because our process is all, um, you know,

 

579

00:25:47.725 –> 00:25:49.365

needs wet seaweed, it’s water based.

 

580

00:25:49.545 –> 00:25:52.605

And so we wanted to, uh, what’s the point

 

581

00:25:52.605 –> 00:25:54.245

of taking the water out of the seaweed if you’re

 

582

00:25:54.245 –> 00:25:55.285

gonna put it back in?

 

583

00:25:55.385 –> 00:25:58.045

Um, and so we wanted to find a way to, uh,

 

584

00:25:58.365 –> 00:25:59.925

stabilize seaweed at ambient temperatures

 

585

00:25:59.945 –> 00:26:03.085

and worked on a technique, which, uh, works really well

 

586

00:26:03.085 –> 00:26:07.085

with our process, uh, which is all based on green chemistry

 

587

00:26:08.025 –> 00:26:10.285

and, uh, food safe, uh, ingredients.

 

588

00:26:10.345 –> 00:26:13.485

And so we, uh, we had done this at Lab Scale,

 

589

00:26:13.585 –> 00:26:15.285

and as Sam suggested,

 

590

00:26:15.305 –> 00:26:17.965

we had done some early trials with GreenWave.

 

591

00:26:18.265 –> 00:26:20.085

Uh, and so we really wanted to bring that

 

592

00:26:20.225 –> 00:26:24.205

to a larger scale setup in Kodiak, uh, this past season

 

593

00:26:24.585 –> 00:26:26.605

and see how it work, uh, in the field.

 

594

00:26:27.305 –> 00:26:29.565

And, uh, so yeah, that’s, that’s what we did.

 

595

00:26:29.665 –> 00:26:32.325

We, uh, processed a bunch of seaweed

 

596

00:26:32.325 –> 00:26:34.725

and we had brought it back to California.

 

597

00:26:34.985 –> 00:26:36.765

Now, obviously at large scales,

 

598

00:26:36.765 –> 00:26:38.845

we’re not planning on shipping seaweed all over the country.

 

599

00:26:38.845 –> 00:26:40.485

That wouldn’t make a lot of sense.

 

600

00:26:40.585 –> 00:26:43.285

But, uh, for where we are in, this is an an r

 

601

00:26:43.285 –> 00:26:46.325

and d project, uh, we really wanted to, uh, get it back

 

602

00:26:46.325 –> 00:26:49.125

to our facility and, uh, use it in our process

 

603

00:26:49.305 –> 00:26:50.445

and monitor it as we go.

 

604

00:26:50.545 –> 00:26:53.045

So to date, we’ve seen pretty good results.

 

605

00:26:53.265 –> 00:26:54.925

Um, it works quite nicely.

 

606

00:26:55.505 –> 00:26:58.085

Uh, we have definitely, uh, you know,

 

607

00:26:58.085 –> 00:27:00.485

preserved the main compounds we’re looking at,

 

608

00:27:00.485 –> 00:27:02.765

which are all the carbohydrate based compounds,

 

609

00:27:02.765 –> 00:27:06.445

polysaccharides, the alginates, the cellulose, uh, and, um,

 

610

00:27:07.025 –> 00:27:09.645

and then we’ve also been looking at, uh, you know,

 

611

00:27:09.645 –> 00:27:11.645

manufacturing compatibility and,

 

612

00:27:11.665 –> 00:27:12.885

and how that works with our process.

 

613

00:27:13.205 –> 00:27:16.725

I think definitely there’s room to improve, um, things like,

 

614

00:27:17.185 –> 00:27:18.805

uh, mixing

 

615

00:27:19.065 –> 00:27:23.165

and ensuring, you know, uniform distribution of reagents.

 

616

00:27:23.265 –> 00:27:26.285

Um, but that’s maybe something we can touch on when we get

 

617

00:27:26.285 –> 00:27:28.605

into the lessons learned, Sam, um,

 

618

00:27:29.185 –> 00:27:30.845

and questions if anyone has them.

 

619

00:27:31.755 –> 00:27:33.495

And, uh, yeah, in terms of our markets,

 

620

00:27:33.795 –> 00:27:35.495

we are focused on the beauty market.

 

621

00:27:35.495 –> 00:27:38.895

We’ve launched a, uh, product which is, uh,

 

622

00:27:39.065 –> 00:27:42.815

based on the polysaccharides found in seaweed, uh,

 

623

00:27:42.815 –> 00:27:45.455

in brown seaweeds, which actually the name

 

624

00:27:45.455 –> 00:27:48.095

that we rebranded the name, it’s called Big Cow Hydration.

 

625

00:27:48.595 –> 00:27:52.095

Um, and, uh, in terms of alginates, we’re, we’re making, uh,

 

626

00:27:52.095 –> 00:27:53.255

food grade sodium alginate,

 

627

00:27:53.555 –> 00:27:57.295

and, uh, we’re also making materials for, uh, packaging.

 

628

00:27:57.475 –> 00:27:59.695

So, uh, a hundred percent our goal is

 

629

00:27:59.695 –> 00:28:01.855

to use a hundred percent of the available biomass.

 

630

00:28:01.875 –> 00:28:04.415

And, uh, yeah, we’re kind of on that path.

 

631

00:28:07.085 –> 00:28:08.535

Awesome. Thank you, Matthew.

 

632

00:28:13.925 –> 00:28:18.255

So some takeaways, uh, things we learned here were

 

633

00:28:18.255 –> 00:28:22.535

that the Vincent VSH shredder is a pretty viable piece

 

634

00:28:22.535 –> 00:28:25.015

of equipment for rural primary processing.

 

635

00:28:25.435 –> 00:28:28.055

Um, we have recommended it to folks who are looking

 

636

00:28:28.055 –> 00:28:30.615

to get into this pretty inexpensively.

 

637

00:28:30.675 –> 00:28:31.895

And again, there is that try

 

638

00:28:31.895 –> 00:28:35.055

before you buy option, which is great for getting started.

 

639

00:28:35.635 –> 00:28:39.615

Um, and GreenWave is, uh, likely gonna bring in the slight,

 

640

00:28:39.715 –> 00:28:41.575

the next model up from this in our

 

641

00:28:41.575 –> 00:28:42.775

projects that we’re doing this year.

 

642

00:28:44.345 –> 00:28:48.805

Um, we also think that the throughput, even

 

643

00:28:48.875 –> 00:28:53.285

with the pretty low tech, uh, situation that we had, like

 

644

00:28:53.285 –> 00:28:54.445

with, with just buckets

 

645

00:28:54.445 –> 00:28:56.405

and barrels, is probably enough to support

 

646

00:28:57.015 –> 00:29:00.645

farms harvesting up to 250,000 pounds per season.

 

647

00:29:00.915 –> 00:29:04.485

Keeping in mind that’s not gonna be all done all in one day,

 

648

00:29:04.485 –> 00:29:07.245

that would be spreading it out over probably a four week

 

649

00:29:07.245 –> 00:29:10.325

period, but that’s gonna be enough

 

650

00:29:10.425 –> 00:29:11.925

to get a lot of people started.

 

651

00:29:12.225 –> 00:29:16.925

And, uh, helping them access the markets that are right size

 

652

00:29:16.945 –> 00:29:18.085

to where they’re, you know,

 

653

00:29:18.405 –> 00:29:19.725

starting out as beginning farmers.

 

654

00:29:21.145 –> 00:29:23.365

And another important takeaway from this is

 

655

00:29:23.365 –> 00:29:26.245

that macro ocean stabilization technique does work

 

656

00:29:26.305 –> 00:29:28.365

to preserve polysaccharides in both

 

657

00:29:28.365 –> 00:29:29.405

sugar kelp and bulk kelp.

 

658

00:29:29.405 –> 00:29:31.525

We, we were able to try to try both of those.

 

659

00:29:32.105 –> 00:29:34.005

Um, and so that’s really great news

 

660

00:29:34.005 –> 00:29:36.365

because of all of those benefits that we shared

 

661

00:29:36.365 –> 00:29:38.805

around wet ambient temperature stabilization.

 

662

00:29:40.865 –> 00:29:42.125

We also did learn some lessons,

 

663

00:29:42.265 –> 00:29:43.965

and of course, this is a joint innovation project,

 

664

00:29:44.065 –> 00:29:45.125

so that’s what it’s all about.

 

665

00:29:45.545 –> 00:29:47.605

Um, one of the big lessons that we learned is

 

666

00:29:47.605 –> 00:29:49.125

that permitting is still a bottleneck

 

667

00:29:49.145 –> 00:29:51.045

for kelp production and rural communities.

 

668

00:29:51.065 –> 00:29:53.965

So as part of this project, we, uh, had intended

 

669

00:29:54.025 –> 00:29:56.205

to source kelp from first year Alaska native

 

670

00:29:56.425 –> 00:29:58.925

and rural communities on the north end of Kodiak Island,

 

671

00:29:59.065 –> 00:30:00.365

in addition to, um,

 

672

00:30:00.365 –> 00:30:03.205

having a backup source from Alaska Ocean Farms.

 

673

00:30:03.505 –> 00:30:05.285

But unfortunately, the farmers were not able

 

674

00:30:05.285 –> 00:30:08.205

to obtain permits and time to outplant for the 2024 season.

 

675

00:30:08.705 –> 00:30:11.565

Um, and so this is still kind of a hurdle for,

 

676

00:30:11.585 –> 00:30:12.605

for them in getting started.

 

677

00:30:13.705 –> 00:30:15.845

Uh, we also learned a lot about in

 

678

00:30:15.845 –> 00:30:17.005

feed and conveyance needs.

 

679

00:30:17.185 –> 00:30:20.205

So, uh, you know, I, I talked about the, the auger

 

680

00:30:20.205 –> 00:30:21.805

to move kelp from point A to point B.

 

681

00:30:22.145 –> 00:30:25.365

Um, there’s also getting it in in a way that is efficient

 

682

00:30:25.365 –> 00:30:26.645

but doesn’t clog the machine,

 

683

00:30:27.105 –> 00:30:29.285

and that’s ergonomic for whoever’s doing it.

 

684

00:30:29.385 –> 00:30:31.845

So, you know, obviously seafood processing is,

 

685

00:30:31.845 –> 00:30:34.565

is a very manual labor activity,

 

686

00:30:34.705 –> 00:30:36.685

and it is unlikely that we will be able

 

687

00:30:36.685 –> 00:30:39.125

to take out all the labor required to process kelp,

 

688

00:30:39.385 –> 00:30:40.805

but we do still think that there is room

 

689

00:30:40.805 –> 00:30:43.085

for improvement on the in feeding conveyance,

 

690

00:30:43.085 –> 00:30:45.645

particularly if we’re trying to do really large volumes like

 

691

00:30:45.645 –> 00:30:46.965

hundreds and hundreds of thousands

 

692

00:30:46.965 –> 00:30:48.005

or even millions of pounds.

 

693

00:30:49.165 –> 00:30:53.065

And finally, as Matthew alluded to, um, we also need

 

694

00:30:53.065 –> 00:30:54.625

to do a little bit more research into how

 

695

00:30:54.625 –> 00:30:58.425

to effectively mix seaweed and reagents at larger scales.

 

696

00:30:58.885 –> 00:31:02.985

So some of the kelp that when it, um, came into contact

 

697

00:31:03.095 –> 00:31:04.905

with the reagent stabilized really well,

 

698

00:31:05.205 –> 00:31:08.945

but then we realized that the, um, that that cement mixer,

 

699

00:31:09.045 –> 00:31:11.105

uh, maybe is not, uh, you know,

 

700

00:31:11.105 –> 00:31:13.465

there was some user error, uh, in there.

 

701

00:31:13.465 –> 00:31:15.545

So it’s not perfect and, uh,

 

702

00:31:15.615 –> 00:31:17.705

that requires some iteration at small scales

 

703

00:31:17.705 –> 00:31:19.865

and even at larger scales, um, you know,

 

704

00:31:19.925 –> 00:31:21.145

if the stabilization

 

705

00:31:21.145 –> 00:31:24.425

of your seaweed is dependent on really thorough mixing,

 

706

00:31:24.725 –> 00:31:26.665

you really wanna have a system where there,

 

707

00:31:26.675 –> 00:31:28.225

there is very little room for error

 

708

00:31:28.325 –> 00:31:30.985

and that it very consistently produces the same

 

709

00:31:31.055 –> 00:31:32.705

product every single time.

 

710

00:31:33.125 –> 00:31:35.545

Um, that’s just a good business practice to make sure

 

711

00:31:35.545 –> 00:31:37.865

that you’re creating a consistent high quality product

 

712

00:31:38.005 –> 00:31:39.225

for your customers.

 

713

00:31:43.195 –> 00:31:45.285

That is all I have in terms of presentation.

 

714

00:31:46.295 –> 00:31:50.375

Um, so I will switch over

 

715

00:31:50.395 –> 00:31:51.695

to taking questions

 

716

00:31:55.935 –> 00:31:57.595

one second to bring this up.

 

717

00:32:06.505 –> 00:32:09.815

All right. Um,

 

718

00:32:11.285 –> 00:32:16.265

so our first question is from Toby Stevens Fleming.

 

719

00:32:16.925 –> 00:32:19.785

He says, you made the point that the kelp needs

 

720

00:32:19.785 –> 00:32:21.665

to be stabilized in hours, not days.

 

721

00:32:21.925 –> 00:32:25.745

To what extent does the, does this affect the final product?

 

722

00:32:27.025 –> 00:32:31.015

Uh, Matthew, do you have any interest in taking this one?

 

723

00:32:33.265 –> 00:32:38.255

Yeah, sure. I think that, uh, I think Cal,

 

724

00:32:38.435 –> 00:32:40.525

uh, anyone who’s, you know, seen it

 

725

00:32:40.525 –> 00:32:42.845

and harvested a bunch of it will notice just

 

726

00:32:42.865 –> 00:32:47.485

by looking at it, that it changes in the way that it, uh,

 

727

00:32:48.055 –> 00:32:50.285

holds together over time pretty rapidly.

 

728

00:32:50.585 –> 00:32:53.045

So within, you know, three days, you’re probably, uh,

 

729

00:32:53.045 –> 00:32:54.925

degraded most of your kelp.

 

730

00:32:55.305 –> 00:32:58.405

Uh, and so, you know, we have been studying, uh,

 

731

00:32:58.515 –> 00:33:01.685

what happens to specific compounds, uh, over time.

 

732

00:33:01.865 –> 00:33:05.285

And I think we’re sort of, of the opinion that maybe

 

733

00:33:06.055 –> 00:33:08.805

48 hours to 72 hours is probably the longest

 

734

00:33:08.835 –> 00:33:10.605

that you can leave your kelp kind

 

735

00:33:10.605 –> 00:33:12.005

of sitting there and doing nothing with it.

 

736

00:33:12.305 –> 00:33:15.045

Uh, but obviously the quicker that you stabilize it, uh,

 

737

00:33:15.045 –> 00:33:16.285

or freeze it or dry it

 

738

00:33:16.285 –> 00:33:18.805

or whatever you’re doing to it, uh, the better, um,

 

739

00:33:19.345 –> 00:33:20.845

or straight up processing it.

 

740

00:33:20.945 –> 00:33:22.125

The challenge, obviously

 

741

00:33:22.125 –> 00:33:25.325

with processing it straight away is you end up needing a

 

742

00:33:25.325 –> 00:33:29.285

very large, uh, facility to be able to get everything done,

 

743

00:33:29.345 –> 00:33:31.845

and then you’re only gonna use that for a few weeks.

 

744

00:33:32.025 –> 00:33:34.885

And so to sort of decouple production

 

745

00:33:35.025 –> 00:33:39.565

or processing from, uh, stabilizing you really trying to,

 

746

00:33:39.785 –> 00:33:41.805

uh, you know, use different techniques.

 

747

00:33:41.865 –> 00:33:45.325

And so that’s primarily what the point of stabilization was.

 

748

00:33:45.425 –> 00:33:49.245

Um, but definitely I would, I’m not the expert

 

749

00:33:49.265 –> 00:33:50.565

for what’s possible locally,

 

750

00:33:50.565 –> 00:33:53.525

but I would recommend, you know, having done something

 

751

00:33:53.595 –> 00:33:56.365

with your kelp after 48 to 72 hours.

 

752

00:33:59.045 –> 00:34:03.545

Thanks, Matthew. Um, Evie Whitten asked what make

 

753

00:34:03.545 –> 00:34:05.825

or model of dual shaft shredder did you test?

 

754

00:34:06.245 –> 00:34:09.065

Um, the, we’re able to get in touch with Toby

 

755

00:34:09.165 –> 00:34:13.505

and he says A three shred H 1800

 

756

00:34:14.245 –> 00:34:16.545

gd, which we will put in the chat

 

757

00:34:16.545 –> 00:34:20.215

because who, it might be hard

 

758

00:34:20.215 –> 00:34:21.455

to find that, just those words.

 

759

00:34:24.175 –> 00:34:26.675

Uh, another one from Toby Steven Fleming.

 

760

00:34:26.895 –> 00:34:29.315

Did the change in temperature from each location

 

761

00:34:30.175 –> 00:34:31.475

affect the stability?

 

762

00:34:32.535 –> 00:34:37.235

Um, I think you’re asking, if I could just clarify if,

 

763

00:34:37.335 –> 00:34:41.915

if you mean like the location, like New Haven versus, um,

 

764

00:34:43.025 –> 00:34:44.325

new Haven versus Kodiak,

 

765

00:34:44.425 –> 00:34:48.515

or maybe we get, get a little more clarity on that.

 

766

00:34:48.615 –> 00:34:49.795

Can he, can he unmute himself?

 

767

00:34:50.095 –> 00:34:52.155

Do we have the ability to do that? Can

 

768

00:34:52.155 –> 00:34:53.155

You hear me?

 

769

00:34:53.255 –> 00:34:55.195

Yes, we can hear you. Fantastic.

 

770

00:34:55.535 –> 00:34:59.315

Uh, it was just wondering about, so where you are, uh,

 

771

00:34:59.455 –> 00:35:02.755

in Kodiak, and then when it goes to Sacramento, if there’s,

 

772

00:35:02.755 –> 00:35:06.235

um, a big change in, in ambient temperature, um,

 

773

00:35:07.215 –> 00:35:09.435

how the stability or if the stability changes.

 

774

00:35:11.225 –> 00:35:12.755

Matthew, I’ll let you take that one too.

 

775

00:35:13.855 –> 00:35:15.795

Uh, yeah, that’s, it’s a great question.

 

776

00:35:15.795 –> 00:35:17.795

Something that we were not sure about

 

777

00:35:17.795 –> 00:35:19.435

until we saw it with our own eyes.

 

778

00:35:19.495 –> 00:35:22.795

So here in Sacramento in the summer, it’s, you know, north

 

779

00:35:22.815 –> 00:35:26.475

of 110 degrees, that’s about 40 plus Celsius.

 

780

00:35:26.895 –> 00:35:29.775

Uh, in Kodiak, I’ll speak out a ton,

 

781

00:35:29.795 –> 00:35:32.535

but it’s, it’s gonna be more in the, uh, fifties or sixties.

 

782

00:35:32.875 –> 00:35:35.855

Uh, so there’s a big swing in temperatures.

 

783

00:35:36.195 –> 00:35:39.965

Uh, we don’t really see that having any impact on, um,

 

784

00:35:40.625 –> 00:35:41.805

uh, on degradation.

 

785

00:35:42.025 –> 00:35:44.445

Things have set out most of the summer

 

786

00:35:44.545 –> 00:35:45.885

and, uh, are just fine.

 

787

00:35:46.025 –> 00:35:49.725

So, um, yeah, we, I obviously we’ve not heated things up

 

788

00:35:50.345 –> 00:35:53.045

to very high temperatures, so I wouldn’t know, uh,

 

789

00:35:53.045 –> 00:35:54.805

we don’t know that question exactly,

 

790

00:35:54.945 –> 00:35:59.485

but in terms of what we’ve seen, uh, as reasonable highs

 

791

00:35:59.485 –> 00:36:02.205

and lows, uh, we feel like it’s working pretty well.

 

792

00:36:03.805 –> 00:36:04.985

Thanks very much. Thanks.

 

793

00:36:05.285 –> 00:36:09.415

Thanks, Matthew. Um, there’s a question from Meg, Chad Sea

 

794

00:36:09.595 –> 00:36:11.015

to me and Missy.

 

795

00:36:11.555 –> 00:36:13.655

Um, did we think about the ways

 

796

00:36:13.725 –> 00:36:16.695

that wet stabilized seaweed could be dried

 

797

00:36:16.835 –> 00:36:18.335

for more efficient transportation?

 

798

00:36:18.465 –> 00:36:21.375

Since water is heavy, um,

 

799

00:36:24.315 –> 00:36:26.735

in this particular joint innovation project,

 

800

00:36:26.915 –> 00:36:29.615

we were not looking at drying.

 

801

00:36:29.755 –> 00:36:33.335

Um, but I do know that Alaska Sea Grant has, uh,

 

802

00:36:33.435 –> 00:36:35.655

did other projects this year that looked at drying.

 

803

00:36:36.275 –> 00:36:38.095

Um, Missy, I don’t know if you are available

 

804

00:36:38.395 –> 00:36:40.655

and interested in saying anything to those.

 

805

00:36:40.795 –> 00:36:44.335

No. Okay. Um, so there were a lot

 

806

00:36:44.335 –> 00:36:46.455

of joint innovation projects actually this year,

 

807

00:36:46.455 –> 00:36:50.095

this same year in, in 20 23, 20 24 that looked at drying.

 

808

00:36:50.115 –> 00:36:53.975

So all of those are gonna be posted online on the A FDF

 

809

00:36:53.975 –> 00:36:55.335

website, um, when they’re complete.

 

810

00:36:55.435 –> 00:36:56.615

And all projects are due

 

811

00:36:56.615 –> 00:36:58.135

to be completed by the end of this month.

 

812

00:36:58.315 –> 00:37:01.175

So, um, highly recommend checking those out

 

813

00:37:01.245 –> 00:37:03.415

because there are a lot of people who did look into that,

 

814

00:37:03.415 –> 00:37:05.375

but that was not part of our, our scope.

 

815

00:37:08.095 –> 00:37:11.955

Uh, Toby asks, what particle size did you achieve?

 

816

00:37:12.495 –> 00:37:16.555

Um, so the VSH shredder with the screen that we

 

817

00:37:17.385 –> 00:37:20.755

used, produced about one inch pieces.

 

818

00:37:21.305 –> 00:37:23.835

It’s not totally uniform, um,

 

819

00:37:24.015 –> 00:37:26.715

but it works for what, what we’re going for

 

820

00:37:26.715 –> 00:37:27.875

with, with macro oceans.

 

821

00:37:28.415 –> 00:37:32.035

One of the things that we really like about the VSH shredder

 

822

00:37:32.035 –> 00:37:35.195

is that that output screen can be substituted.

 

823

00:37:35.255 –> 00:37:38.035

So, uh, there, there’s, there’s a whole wide variety

 

824

00:37:38.215 –> 00:37:39.355

of screens available,

 

825

00:37:39.815 –> 00:37:43.155

and then, uh, you can even custom fabricate your own screen.

 

826

00:37:43.175 –> 00:37:45.995

And so the kelp just kind of like keeps bumping around in,

 

827

00:37:46.055 –> 00:37:48.755

in that dual, in the, um, you know,

 

828

00:37:48.755 –> 00:37:50.275

banging up against those shredder bars

 

829

00:37:50.485 –> 00:37:51.755

until it’s the right side

 

830

00:37:51.755 –> 00:37:53.275

and then it can fall out through the screen.

 

831

00:37:53.895 –> 00:37:56.195

Uh, so really customizable there.

 

832

00:37:56.455 –> 00:37:57.755

Thanks very much for that.

 

833

00:37:57.915 –> 00:38:00.115

I was just wondering, did you try any smaller screens

 

834

00:38:03.445 –> 00:38:05.785

For what we did try them leading up to this?

 

835

00:38:06.045 –> 00:38:08.185

Uh, I believe we tried them in the, in the previous year

 

836

00:38:08.295 –> 00:38:09.665

with Matthew’s work.

 

837

00:38:09.845 –> 00:38:12.065

Uh, the work we did with Matthew in, um, in New Haven

 

838

00:38:12.845 –> 00:38:14.985

and the smaller screens sort

 

839

00:38:14.985 –> 00:38:16.385

of sometimes ended up creating more

 

840

00:38:16.385 –> 00:38:18.585

of just like a mush than pieces.

 

841

00:38:19.325 –> 00:38:22.745

Um, but that is dependent on the, the type of kec too.

 

842

00:38:23.005 –> 00:38:24.905

So sugar versus bowl behaves a little bit different.

 

843

00:38:26.335 –> 00:38:28.565

Okay. Thanks very much. Yeah.

 

844

00:38:30.935 –> 00:38:32.315

Uh, Rand asks,

 

845

00:38:32.615 –> 00:38:35.445

do you have recommendations on make model of augers?

 

846

00:38:36.385 –> 00:38:40.245

Uh, we, we, uh, used our phone call to Toby again

 

847

00:38:40.625 –> 00:38:42.885

and he says, uh, that we don’t,

 

848

00:38:42.885 –> 00:38:44.285

they’re all pretty much the same.

 

849

00:38:44.745 –> 00:38:47.365

You can buy components from Granger and assemble yourself.

 

850

00:38:47.865 –> 00:38:50.605

Um, but there is also, he al uh, he has used one

 

851

00:38:50.605 –> 00:38:52.805

that he likes that is from McMaster.

 

852

00:38:58.545 –> 00:39:02.245

Uh, Daniel asked, what reagents did you use

 

853

00:39:02.245 –> 00:39:04.605

that were effective for stabilizing sugar kelp?

 

854

00:39:05.225 –> 00:39:10.155

Um, so I, I guess to generalize this question,

 

855

00:39:10.735 –> 00:39:14.075

um, the reagents that you use are dependent for

 

856

00:39:14.835 –> 00:39:16.115

whatever you’re trying to get out of it.

 

857

00:39:16.215 –> 00:39:18.835

No reagent, there’s no one size fits all reagent.

 

858

00:39:19.015 –> 00:39:22.195

The reagent is customized for what do you need to preserve

 

859

00:39:22.295 –> 00:39:25.315

and what do you not care about in terms of, uh,

 

860

00:39:25.845 –> 00:39:27.875

there there will be some kind of destruction

 

861

00:39:27.935 –> 00:39:29.475

or degradation that occurs.

 

862

00:39:29.895 –> 00:39:32.475

Um, Matthew, I don’t know if you, you would like to, oh,

 

863

00:39:32.475 –> 00:39:33.675

sorry, go ahead Daniel.

 

864

00:39:33.735 –> 00:39:36.395

Can I just quickly jump in? Assuming that you’re looking

 

865

00:39:36.495 –> 00:39:38.515

to extract the, the same kind

 

866

00:39:38.515 –> 00:39:39.955

of polysaccharides that mm-hmm.

 

867

00:39:40.135 –> 00:39:41.195

Of interest to macros

 

868

00:39:41.415 –> 00:39:45.515

and the alginic, um, which reagents proved the least

 

869

00:39:46.075 –> 00:39:47.795

destructive and therefore, you know, you’d want

 

870

00:39:47.795 –> 00:39:48.875

to be using going forward?

 

871

00:39:50.495 –> 00:39:51.785

Matthew, what object that, and then

 

872

00:39:51.785 –> 00:39:53.265

What kind of timescale are you

 

873

00:39:53.865 –> 00:39:57.945

envisioning this stabilization will last until you start

 

874

00:39:57.945 –> 00:40:01.905

to see, you know, microbial or, um, degradation or whatever?

 

875

00:40:03.525 –> 00:40:07.255

Yeah, it’s a great question. So right now we have, uh,

 

876

00:40:08.475 –> 00:40:13.135

we really targeted 12 months in terms of the longevity, uh,

 

877

00:40:13.135 –> 00:40:15.415

mostly because we wanna be able

 

878

00:40:15.415 –> 00:40:18.455

to store seaweed from one harvest to the next harvest.

 

879

00:40:18.755 –> 00:40:21.215

Um, and so that’s kind of been what we’ve proven out.

 

880

00:40:21.315 –> 00:40:25.775

Uh, we’ve tried, um, 40 different cocktails, uh,

 

881

00:40:26.315 –> 00:40:29.775

trying to optimize what we want for our application.

 

882

00:40:29.995 –> 00:40:33.975

Um, and so, you know, we’ve used all, uh, green chemistries,

 

883

00:40:34.295 –> 00:40:36.255

foodsafe ingredients, um,

 

884

00:40:36.715 –> 00:40:38.695

and things which are cost effective.

 

885

00:40:38.695 –> 00:40:41.255

And so that’s really the formula that we’ve been making.

 

886

00:40:41.795 –> 00:40:44.095

Um, right now, as I said, it’s an RD project,

 

887

00:40:44.275 –> 00:40:47.575

so we’re still, uh, making sure that, uh, you know,

 

888

00:40:47.755 –> 00:40:50.775

you go on a dog, food, anything, uh, yourself

 

889

00:40:50.795 –> 00:40:52.655

before you launch it to the public.

 

890

00:40:52.755 –> 00:40:55.335

So we haven’t, uh, you know, we haven’t commercialized this.

 

891

00:40:55.635 –> 00:40:59.495

Um, and, uh, yeah, we’re gonna work through those, uh,

 

892

00:40:59.495 –> 00:41:00.735

through the rest of the data

 

893

00:41:00.795 –> 00:41:02.535

and trials that we have planned.

 

894

00:41:02.555 –> 00:41:04.695

Before we, before we kind of take it broader,

 

895

00:41:10.825 –> 00:41:13.215

Sorry, if I could just quickly follow up on that.

 

896

00:41:13.275 –> 00:41:16.375

So do, do you plan to, um, develop that IP

 

897

00:41:16.715 –> 00:41:18.175

for yourself commercially?

 

898

00:41:18.635 –> 00:41:21.495

Or is this part of a more open source, you know,

 

899

00:41:21.495 –> 00:41:25.495

with GreenWave project that you are going to,

 

900

00:41:26.935 –> 00:41:29.075

um, you know, yeah.

 

901

00:41:29.135 –> 00:41:31.195

Is this an open source RD project

 

902

00:41:31.215 –> 00:41:33.405

or you developing commercial ip?

 

903

00:41:35.705 –> 00:41:37.035

It’s all really dependent on

 

904

00:41:37.095 –> 00:41:38.435

how the rest of our trials go.

 

905

00:41:43.395 –> 00:41:45.135

Daniel, one of the ways that we’ve been thinking about

 

906

00:41:45.135 –> 00:41:48.895

this work with macro oceans is that, um, they,

 

907

00:41:49.585 –> 00:41:53.855

macro oceans is, is seeking to scale up their processing of,

 

908

00:41:53.915 –> 00:41:55.975

of kelp into these downstream ingredients

 

909

00:41:56.175 –> 00:41:58.695

and what the market, what what the industry really needs

 

910

00:41:58.695 –> 00:42:01.495

right now is off-takers of large amounts of kelp.

 

911

00:42:02.075 –> 00:42:06.365

Um, they are incentivized to have supply.

 

912

00:42:06.625 –> 00:42:09.725

And so, uh, the, the reagents

 

913

00:42:09.725 –> 00:42:12.645

and the, the stabilization technique will be made available

 

914

00:42:12.745 –> 00:42:15.685

to the producers, um, who are going

 

915

00:42:15.685 –> 00:42:17.125

to be supplying into macro oceans,

 

916

00:42:17.125 –> 00:42:18.605

which is gonna be hundreds of thousands of pounds,

 

917

00:42:18.605 –> 00:42:19.645

if not millions of pounds.

 

918

00:42:20.265 –> 00:42:23.645

And so, um, I think that the, maybe to put,

 

919

00:42:23.645 –> 00:42:24.685

put a finer point on it,

 

920

00:42:24.805 –> 00:42:28.045

I think what’s TBD is whether this agent, the,

 

921

00:42:28.045 –> 00:42:30.125

these reagents are gonna be available to other

 

922

00:42:32.355 –> 00:42:34.795

companies making these polysaccharide products,

 

923

00:42:34.895 –> 00:42:37.315

but it will be available to the, to the producers

 

924

00:42:37.315 –> 00:42:39.915

who are able, like, who are going to have to be able

 

925

00:42:39.915 –> 00:42:42.515

to use it in rural context in order to supply

 

926

00:42:42.515 –> 00:42:44.675

to macro oceans, which is a really important,

 

927

00:42:44.675 –> 00:42:46.635

important unlock for these communities in terms

 

928

00:42:46.635 –> 00:42:48.115

of being able to, to get to market.

 

929

00:42:49.595 –> 00:42:53.125

Okay. Sorry, maybe, maybe I just add on top of that, look,

 

930

00:42:53.505 –> 00:42:57.125

one thing that is bad about tech technology you develop is

 

931

00:42:57.125 –> 00:42:58.405

if you’re not a hundred percent sure

 

932

00:42:58.545 –> 00:43:01.165

how it’s gonna work in all situations for the applications

 

933

00:43:01.165 –> 00:43:03.325

that you believe are commercially viable.

 

934

00:43:03.785 –> 00:43:05.525

Um, and so what bad looks like is

 

935

00:43:05.525 –> 00:43:09.085

to put something out there which, uh, might be very specific

 

936

00:43:09.105 –> 00:43:11.005

for us, but we don’t understand how that might work

 

937

00:43:11.285 –> 00:43:12.565

for a bio stimulant producer

 

938

00:43:12.785 –> 00:43:14.805

or how that might work in a food application.

 

939

00:43:15.225 –> 00:43:17.725

And now you have the, you know, you’ve kind of, uh,

 

940

00:43:17.985 –> 00:43:20.565

put something out there that folks feel is, um,

 

941

00:43:21.225 –> 00:43:22.245

not relevant to them.

 

942

00:43:22.545 –> 00:43:25.405

And so, you know, in order for us to truly understand,

 

943

00:43:25.705 –> 00:43:27.885

you know, how this is gonna work for other people

 

944

00:43:28.165 –> 00:43:30.285

’cause we’ve really only made it for ourselves, we have

 

945

00:43:30.285 –> 00:43:32.205

to do a couple more tests and things internally

 

946

00:43:32.305 –> 00:43:34.885

before we decide exactly how it’s gonna work.

 

947

00:43:35.125 –> 00:43:36.565

’cause it may have limited utility

 

948

00:43:36.745 –> 00:43:39.165

to people in say the bio stimulant space.

 

949

00:43:39.225 –> 00:43:41.365

And so some of the things that we’re trying to work

 

950

00:43:41.365 –> 00:43:45.245

through is exactly what the right, uh, applications are.

 

951

00:43:45.385 –> 00:43:47.285

And so that we’re, you know,

 

952

00:43:47.285 –> 00:43:48.725

if we put a technology out there,

 

953

00:43:48.725 –> 00:43:51.765

we wanna be authoritative on how to use it as opposed

 

954

00:43:51.785 –> 00:43:55.565

to just kind of, you know, letting, uh, letting people, uh,

 

955

00:43:56.265 –> 00:43:58.405

run with it and then it kind of backfires

 

956

00:43:58.405 –> 00:43:59.765

because it doesn’t work in

 

957

00:43:59.765 –> 00:44:01.325

applications that people are trying to use.

 

958

00:44:01.325 –> 00:44:02.685

Does, does that make sense? Uh,

 

959

00:44:02.685 –> 00:44:04.445

we wanna make sure it’s well out through, um,

 

960

00:44:04.445 –> 00:44:06.485

before we put it in farmer’s hands

 

961

00:44:06.485 –> 00:44:08.285

and farmers then, you know, are able

 

962

00:44:08.285 –> 00:44:10.045

to serve specific markets with it.

 

963

00:44:13.355 –> 00:44:14.865

Understood. Thank you.

 

964

00:44:17.775 –> 00:44:21.665

Awesome. Uh, Jan asked if there are any

 

965

00:44:22.225 –> 00:44:26.545

stabilization experiences with Wing or, uh, ribbon Kelp.

 

966

00:44:27.365 –> 00:44:32.045

And I will say that I have not done any, uh, or,

 

967

00:44:32.145 –> 00:44:33.285

or not aware of any,

 

968

00:44:33.305 –> 00:44:35.805

but if there’s anyone on this call that does of something,

 

969

00:44:35.805 –> 00:44:36.965

they’re welcome to chime in.

 

970

00:44:44.635 –> 00:44:46.445

Okay. We’re gonna go with that to no for now.

 

971

00:44:47.065 –> 00:44:50.605

Um, hi, can you hear me, Sarah? Yeah. Yes,

 

972

00:44:50.765 –> 00:44:51.765

I can hear you. Just

 

973

00:44:51.765 –> 00:44:55.645

from hands on experience handling raw kelp, uh,

 

974

00:44:55.805 –> 00:45:00.525

winged Cal seems to last the longest on hand.

 

975

00:45:01.225 –> 00:45:04.445

Mm-Hmm. Like versus bowl and sugar. Mm-Hmm.

 

976

00:45:04.525 –> 00:45:07.605

On its own, just standing on its own. Mm-Hmm.

 

977

00:45:07.915 –> 00:45:09.525

It’s the most stable of the three.

 

978

00:45:10.765 –> 00:45:13.245

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I have not done any, any,

 

979

00:45:13.545 –> 00:45:17.285

I’m not aware of any, any, um, science that has been done

 

980

00:45:17.305 –> 00:45:18.645

or any like, formal studies.

 

981

00:45:19.025 –> 00:45:20.125

So, um,

 

982

00:45:20.305 –> 00:45:22.725

but that’s great to know from, from an anecdotal perspective

 

983

00:45:22.745 –> 00:45:25.165

and hopefully maybe someone on this call will take it on

 

984

00:45:25.265 –> 00:45:27.085

as a, as a next gen innovation project

 

985

00:45:27.315 –> 00:45:28.605

comparing the, the stability.

 

986

00:45:31.855 –> 00:45:36.715

Um, cliff asked what is the final stabilized weight

 

987

00:45:37.235 –> 00:45:39.115

compared to the harvested wet weight?

 

988

00:45:40.895 –> 00:45:42.995

Um, great question.

 

989

00:45:43.555 –> 00:45:48.515

I, I don’t know that we have for firm enough data on

 

990

00:45:48.515 –> 00:45:52.385

that yet because one of the things that is,

 

991

00:45:53.645 –> 00:45:57.015

that, that still needs to be figured out is, is like how

 

992

00:45:57.015 –> 00:46:01.175

and when weighing of wet kelp should happen

 

993

00:46:01.355 –> 00:46:05.615

and what constitutes an accurate wet weight of, of kelp.

 

994

00:46:05.755 –> 00:46:08.415

So, you know, there’s surface water on the kelp as I know,

 

995

00:46:08.415 –> 00:46:10.535

you know, cliff, but there, there’s surface water on the

 

996

00:46:10.535 –> 00:46:13.335

kelp when it comes out and some of that falls off,

 

997

00:46:13.555 –> 00:46:16.385

but depending on what kind of container you put it in,

 

998

00:46:16.385 –> 00:46:17.425

we don’t really know how much.

 

999

00:46:18.005 –> 00:46:21.965

And then, um, and then it’s being processed,

 

1000

00:46:21.965 –> 00:46:25.045

then you’re losing additional, uh, you know,

 

1001

00:46:25.045 –> 00:46:27.445

so depending on the kelp sometimes like alginates are like

 

1002

00:46:27.445 –> 00:46:29.205

streaming out of it, you know, uh,

 

1003

00:46:29.205 –> 00:46:30.925

or water’s coming out of it at that point in time.

 

1004

00:46:31.145 –> 00:46:34.085

And, and then we’re adding in the reagent.

 

1005

00:46:34.225 –> 00:46:38.605

So, uh, we in this, uh, in, in both scenarios,

 

1006

00:46:39.405 –> 00:46:40.645

actually, I don’t know how, how Matthew did it,

 

1007

00:46:40.645 –> 00:46:41.765

but in the scenario with the,

 

1008

00:46:41.915 –> 00:46:46.245

with the bio stimulant customer, um, we really went by the,

 

1009

00:46:46.445 –> 00:46:48.245

finished the weight of the finished product was

 

1010

00:46:48.245 –> 00:46:52.445

what we like sold the product based on rather than the

 

1011

00:46:52.445 –> 00:46:53.565

weight of the input kelp

 

1012

00:46:53.565 –> 00:46:55.445

because it’s so hard to, to measure.

 

1013

00:46:56.105 –> 00:46:58.645

Um, and I think we, we need, we all need to,

 

1014

00:46:58.645 –> 00:47:00.205

as an industry do a little bit more work there.

 

1015

00:47:01.295 –> 00:47:03.105

Matthew, I don’t know if you have anything else you wanna

 

1016

00:47:03.105 –> 00:47:05.385

say about weight or conversions or anything like that?

 

1017

00:47:06.445 –> 00:47:07.345

No. Okay.

 

1018

00:47:10.925 –> 00:47:13.625

Um, okay.

 

1019

00:47:13.885 –> 00:47:15.345

Uh, we had some questions about

 

1020

00:47:16.545 –> 00:47:17.865

fermentation and freeze drying.

 

1021

00:47:17.885 –> 00:47:18.985

I’m gonna, I’m gonna skip that one

 

1022

00:47:18.985 –> 00:47:21.945

because we um, we, we didn’t look at either of those things,

 

1023

00:47:22.005 –> 00:47:23.745

so, so we can’t really speak to them today.

 

1024

00:47:24.365 –> 00:47:25.745

And have there been any attempts

 

1025

00:47:25.745 –> 00:47:27.625

or by requests to pelletize the raw products?

 

1026

00:47:27.705 –> 00:47:30.005

I also, that, that was not unfortunately in scope

 

1027

00:47:30.105 –> 00:47:31.765

for this, uh, project.

 

1028

00:47:33.145 –> 00:47:36.325

Um, so I’m gonna,

 

1029

00:47:36.865 –> 00:47:41.365

are there any other questions about this kind of the,

 

1030

00:47:41.465 –> 00:47:43.965

the form of ambient temperature stabilization we,

 

1031

00:47:44.225 –> 00:47:46.605

we did in this or any of the equipment that we used?

 

1032

00:47:50.815 –> 00:47:52.675

It would be, could you repeat what the, um,

 

1033

00:47:52.705 –> 00:47:55.235

ambient temperatures were, what you were working with?

 

1034

00:47:57.305 –> 00:48:00.635

Sure. Um, the temperature in Kodiak around the time

 

1035

00:48:00.665 –> 00:48:02.955

that we, that we were processing was, was a,

 

1036

00:48:03.015 –> 00:48:04.395

was in the fifties, approximately,

 

1037

00:48:04.635 –> 00:48:05.715

I would say forties and fifties.

 

1038

00:48:06.335 –> 00:48:09.915

Um, and then it was shipped to,

 

1039

00:48:11.175 –> 00:48:15.315

uh, ship to California in, gosh, that was the middle

 

1040

00:48:15.315 –> 00:48:18.035

of summer, so I’m gonna guess it was pretty hot.

 

1041

00:48:18.705 –> 00:48:19.915

Matthew, I don’t know, did we,

 

1042

00:48:19.915 –> 00:48:21.195

did there any data loggers in there

 

1043

00:48:21.195 –> 00:48:23.115

or do we know actually how hot that container got?

 

1044

00:48:24.135 –> 00:48:25.475

Uh, I don’t know about the container.

 

1045

00:48:25.635 –> 00:48:27.635

I can tell you that ambient temperatures here were

 

1046

00:48:28.865 –> 00:48:30.295

definitely north of a hundred.

 

1047

00:48:30.515 –> 00:48:32.415

We had a couple days in the a hundred tens.

 

1048

00:48:32.635 –> 00:48:36.495

Um, so I think you can safely assume that that was, uh,

 

1049

00:48:36.555 –> 00:48:38.895

at some point at that kind of temperature.

 

1050

00:48:45.905 –> 00:48:46.255

Great.

 

1051

00:48:51.035 –> 00:48:52.405

Okay. Last call for questions.

 

1052

00:48:53.065 –> 00:48:57.255

You can just come off on mute.

 

1053

00:48:57.755 –> 00:49:00.855

I’m off mute if you have a, anything, anything else to say?

 

1054

00:49:02.585 –> 00:49:04.635

Hi Sam. Hi,

 

1055

00:49:04.635 –> 00:49:05.635

This is Kayani.

 

1056

00:49:06.485 –> 00:49:09.145

Hi Kaya. Hi. Great presentation. Thank you.

 

1057

00:49:09.925 –> 00:49:13.795

Thank you. Um, I had a question.

 

1058

00:49:14.015 –> 00:49:16.835

Was it, was there an audit of the, of the power used at

 

1059

00:49:16.835 –> 00:49:18.035

that place too as well?

 

1060

00:49:18.815 –> 00:49:21.595

Uh, ’cause I’m doing some things in, in with folks

 

1061

00:49:22.095 –> 00:49:24.715

and we’re wildly different across the state on

 

1062

00:49:24.715 –> 00:49:26.875

what the prices are for electricity

 

1063

00:49:27.655 –> 00:49:29.235

and fuel and stuff like that.

 

1064

00:49:29.335 –> 00:49:32.315

Was there any information on that where you guys were

 

1065

00:49:33.175 –> 00:49:34.175

Yeah, great question.

 

1066

00:49:34.565 –> 00:49:36.705

We did not look at the, we did not measure the power

 

1067

00:49:36.705 –> 00:49:38.865

that was used from the facility.

 

1068

00:49:39.645 –> 00:49:43.665

And one of the things that, uh, is great about the machine

 

1069

00:49:43.735 –> 00:49:45.585

that we chose the VSH shredder is

 

1070

00:49:45.585 –> 00:49:48.985

that it can take almost any kind of power input.

 

1071

00:49:49.045 –> 00:49:52.185

You know, there are that the smaller model requires much

 

1072

00:49:52.185 –> 00:49:54.105

less power than, than like the dual

 

1073

00:49:54.105 –> 00:49:55.265

shaft shredder, for example.

 

1074

00:49:55.965 –> 00:50:00.545

Um, and so I can get you additional power specs on that, um,

 

1075

00:50:00.565 –> 00:50:03.705

if it would be helpful, but it’s, it’s pretty versatile

 

1076

00:50:04.085 –> 00:50:08.355

and, um, you know, the, the main,

 

1077

00:50:09.665 –> 00:50:12.405

you know, we, that was the only piece, uh, other than the,

 

1078

00:50:12.405 –> 00:50:15.005

that uh, right angle drill, that was the only piece

 

1079

00:50:15.005 –> 00:50:16.525

of powered equipment in

 

1080

00:50:16.525 –> 00:50:18.765

that entire processing line if you’re gonna keep it small

 

1081

00:50:18.765 –> 00:50:19.805

with like the buckets and the

 

1082

00:50:19.805 –> 00:50:20.965

barrels and that sort of thing.

 

1083

00:50:21.065 –> 00:50:23.805

So, um, thank you for bringing that up.

 

1084

00:50:23.885 –> 00:50:25.805

I think that’s a really good thing to look at for,

 

1085

00:50:25.865 –> 00:50:27.005

for future studies and,

 

1086

00:50:27.705 –> 00:50:29.925

and, uh, I’ll get you what, what we do know for sure.

 

1087

00:50:30.485 –> 00:50:33.045

O okay. Thank you. ’cause we’ve got questions on folks too

 

1088

00:50:33.045 –> 00:50:36.005

to see if they can use their auxiliary on their on Yep.

 

1089

00:50:36.005 –> 00:50:38.125

Because there’s a lot of communities that have packers that

 

1090

00:50:38.705 –> 00:50:42.045

may be able to do this whole thing on the packer itself Yep.

 

1091

00:50:42.225 –> 00:50:44.525

Uh, to get away from, uh, municipal power.

 

1092

00:50:44.825 –> 00:50:48.685

So, um, thank you. Exactly. Thank you very much. Um, you’re,

 

1093

00:50:48.785 –> 00:50:49.785

You’re very welcome.

 

1094

00:50:49.995 –> 00:50:52.125

Hope you have a great day. Awesome. All you guys. You too.

 

1095

00:50:52.125 –> 00:50:55.275

Thank you. Sam.

 

1096

00:50:55.335 –> 00:50:56.355

Amy, go ahead. Yeah,

 

1097

00:50:56.385 –> 00:50:58.595

Yeah, just a follow up to, to Kayla’s question.

 

1098

00:50:58.855 –> 00:51:02.195

So when you say it’s flexible, um, am I correct in,

 

1099

00:51:02.335 –> 00:51:05.795

in the knowledge that it can be adapted for

 

1100

00:51:06.495 –> 00:51:07.715

one 20 or two 40?

 

1101

00:51:10.005 –> 00:51:11.305

Uh, great question.

 

1102

00:51:13.015 –> 00:51:15.655

I I don’t wanna, I

 

1103

00:51:16.655 –> 00:51:18.015

I will get you that, uh, information.

 

1104

00:51:18.055 –> 00:51:19.055

I don’t wanna say the wrong thing,

 

1105

00:51:19.075 –> 00:51:21.455

but I, I believe I, I, I don’t,

 

1106

00:51:21.495 –> 00:51:23.495

I think it may prefer two 40,

 

1107

00:51:23.875 –> 00:51:28.465

but, um, I am not a power expert,

 

1108

00:51:28.685 –> 00:51:29.785

so I would like to get you that

 

1109

00:51:29.785 –> 00:51:30.825

information offline. Okay. Yeah,

 

1110

00:51:30.925 –> 00:51:31.785

No, no worries. Thanks.

 

1111

00:51:32.415 –> 00:51:32.705

Yeah.

 

1112

00:51:39.695 –> 00:51:42.675

Hi, Sam. Sorry. Got another question. Why not All good.

 

1113

00:51:43.395 –> 00:51:47.055

Um, the, the shredder. Yeah.

 

1114

00:51:47.235 –> 00:51:49.535

How did it operate under, or,

 

1115

00:51:49.555 –> 00:51:52.775

or were there any advice given from the supplier under

 

1116

00:51:52.835 –> 00:51:54.255

longer runs?

 

1117

00:51:55.415 –> 00:51:57.435

So I’m asking that because some of the shredding equipment

 

1118

00:51:57.435 –> 00:51:59.595

that I’ve been looking at, they say it’s, it’s not suitable

 

1119

00:51:59.735 –> 00:52:01.155

for continuous operation.

 

1120

00:52:02.045 –> 00:52:05.655

Yeah. This was operated pretty continuously.

 

1121

00:52:05.795 –> 00:52:08.455

Um, if you look on their website, they do have a certain,

 

1122

00:52:08.725 –> 00:52:11.135

they, they do, uh, publish the amount

 

1123

00:52:11.965 –> 00:52:16.105

that they recommend per the, the volume per hour.

 

1124

00:52:16.285 –> 00:52:18.945

And then I think, I think they do have an hour runtime,

 

1125

00:52:19.085 –> 00:52:23.545

but we ran ours for I think five hours continuously.

 

1126

00:52:23.925 –> 00:52:26.265

Um, which, which is a pretty decent shift.

 

1127

00:52:26.605 –> 00:52:30.685

Uh, and there were no issues with that.

 

1128

00:52:30.905 –> 00:52:33.845

The only time we ever had to stop

 

1129

00:52:33.845 –> 00:52:37.405

because of the machine was if we loaded too much

 

1130

00:52:37.515 –> 00:52:38.565

kelp in at one time.

 

1131

00:52:38.905 –> 00:52:41.805

So the kelp, when you’re putting it in,

 

1132

00:52:42.855 –> 00:52:44.915

you obviously wanna be maximizing throughput,

 

1133

00:52:44.915 –> 00:52:49.355

but you know, it is still a, a rotating, you know,

 

1134

00:52:49.355 –> 00:52:50.395

you have a rotating shaft

 

1135

00:52:50.395 –> 00:52:52.995

and if you put too much in two things can happen.

 

1136

00:52:53.095 –> 00:52:55.675

It, number one, it can clog, or number two,

 

1137

00:52:55.675 –> 00:52:57.315

because of the shape of the chute,

 

1138

00:52:57.375 –> 00:53:00.795

the kelp can actually kind of bridge like it can, it can

 

1139

00:53:01.405 –> 00:53:02.595

stick to itself

 

1140

00:53:02.735 –> 00:53:07.675

and not actually go down the, the, uh, the neck of the chute

 

1141

00:53:07.735 –> 00:53:10.155

and then you kind of have to shove it down with some kind

 

1142

00:53:10.155 –> 00:53:12.155

of pusher that while also being safe

 

1143

00:53:12.175 –> 00:53:13.475

so you don’t get your hand chopped off.

 

1144

00:53:13.935 –> 00:53:17.195

Um, so that was the only real, uh,

 

1145

00:53:17.565 –> 00:53:18.875

those were the only two challenges.

 

1146

00:53:18.895 –> 00:53:22.355

Um, the clogging only happened, uh, sort of intentionally.

 

1147

00:53:22.375 –> 00:53:23.475

We were trying to max it out

 

1148

00:53:23.475 –> 00:53:24.835

and see how, how much, how much,

 

1149

00:53:25.005 –> 00:53:26.805

much kelp could we physically shove into

 

1150

00:53:26.805 –> 00:53:28.925

this thing at, at one time. Um,

 

1151

00:53:29.775 –> 00:53:30.775

Okay. Thanks very

 

1152

00:53:30.775 –> 00:53:31.125

much.

 

1153

00:53:31.945 –> 00:53:32.185

Absolutely.

 

1154

00:53:37.045 –> 00:53:40.935

Okay. Um, I’m gonna, I’m gonna call it, thank you so much

 

1155

00:53:40.935 –> 00:53:42.495

for your excellent questions and engagement.

 

1156

00:53:42.495 –> 00:53:43.895

This was really a great session.

 

1157

00:53:44.595 –> 00:53:48.335

Um, we will be sending out a recording of this webinar.

 

1158

00:53:48.515 –> 00:53:50.495

We will also be sending out all of the resources

 

1159

00:53:50.495 –> 00:53:53.535

that we created as part of this joint innovation project.

 

1160

00:53:53.705 –> 00:53:57.375

Thank you so much to A FDF, uh, for funding this

 

1161

00:53:57.475 –> 00:54:00.335

and to all of our project partners for making this happen.

 

1162

00:54:00.555 –> 00:54:03.095

Uh, I know we learned a lot and we’re really excited about

 

1163

00:54:03.475 –> 00:54:05.215

the possibilities this could open up for others,

 

1164

00:54:05.755 –> 00:54:07.215

uh, building on this research.

 

1165

00:54:07.595 –> 00:54:11.255

Um, please, uh, if you are not already, you can sign up

 

1166

00:54:11.275 –> 00:54:15.135

to hear more about the Spotlight series from GreenWave

 

1167

00:54:15.155 –> 00:54:16.935

and from about our Far Farmer forum.

 

1168

00:54:17.555 –> 00:54:18.815

All of these are really in depth,

 

1169

00:54:19.335 –> 00:54:20.495

tangible topics in the industry.

 

1170

00:54:20.675 –> 00:54:22.055

And, um, you guys are,

 

1171

00:54:22.275 –> 00:54:23.855

are the special sauce that makes the magic happen.

 

1172

00:54:23.915 –> 00:54:27.415

So thank you for being here and we will see you all soon.

 

1173

00:54:30.945 –> 00:54:33.245

Thanks. Bye. Thank you.