Kelp Stabilization: Current and Emerging Methods | Farmer Forum

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We’ll get started in one minute.

 

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Um, while we are waiting for more folks to trickle in,

 

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if you’d like to start

 

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by introducing yourselves in the chat, please let us know

 

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what is your name, uh, what is your role in the industry

 

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and where your farm or business is located.

 

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We will put that up on a slide in a minute here.

 

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Okay. Uh, we’re gonna get started. Hi everyone.

 

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Welcome to today’s Farmer Forum. My name is Sam Garrin.

 

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I’m the director of market development at GreenWave,

 

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and I’m based outside of Boston,

 

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Massachusetts on Puck NAMM KE and Massachusetts Land.

 

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For those of you who are joining for the first time today,

 

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um, farmer Forum is an initiative we launched last year

 

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to connect the active farming community

 

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by bringing people together

 

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for monthly calls on real tangible

 

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issues you face in the field.

 

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Today we’ll be speaking about current

 

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and emerging kelp stabilization methods.

 

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Um, a quick reminder before we dive in.

 

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This call is being recorded, but only be a speaker view.

 

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So if you don’t come off mute

 

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or put anything in the chat, you will not be recorded.

 

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Um, if you don’t mind being recorded, feel free

 

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to put questions in the chat as we go,

 

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or save them till the end

 

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of each speaker’s presentation when you can come off mute

 

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and ask your question directly.

 

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So you will have a few minutes

 

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after each speaker rather than needing

 

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to wait all the way till the end.

 

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Um, again, uh, if you would mind,

 

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uh, introducing yourselves.

 

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We’d love to know who’s in the room.

 

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Um, so please put in the chat, what is your name,

 

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what is your role in the industry and where your farm

 

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or business is located

 

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so you can get a sense of of who’s here.

 

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Uh, next slide please.

 

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Today I am going to be joined by, uh,

 

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three amazing guest speakers.

 

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We are super excited to have these folks with us.

 

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Uh, we have Casey Ballin, who’s director of Operations

 

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and Sustainability at Atlantic Sea Farms, Akiva Ebler,

 

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who is Assistant Production Manager at Barnacle Foods,

 

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and Matthew Perkins, founder and CEO of Macro Oceans.

 

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The agenda first, we’re gonna start,

 

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I’m gonna go over some background

 

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and considerations for kelp stabilization,

 

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and then we’re gonna dive right into our guest speakers.

 

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So, um, Atlantic Sea Farms,

 

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Casey is gonna be talking about a large

 

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scale fermentation and freezing.

 

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Then we’re gonna hear from barnacle about evaluating methods

 

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for efficient drying of kelp.

 

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And then we’re gonna hear from macro oceans about

 

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stabilization through green chemistry.

 

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And there will be five minutes

 

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after each speaker for q and a.

 

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Let’s get into it.

 

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Um, so to start,

 

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let’s take a look at the seaweed value chain.

 

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And this includes all the steps that we need

 

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to take kelp from seed

 

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to the end consumer in whatever format that might be.

 

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This is definitely a simp, you know, oversimplification,

 

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but it’s a helpful, uh, uh, just visualization of

 

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how many different, uh, steps and people

 

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and processes are required in order to,

 

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to make kelp be a viable product to the market.

 

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And each step in this value chain can be thought of

 

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as a physical or relational way of adding value.

 

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So that’s making kelp more desirable

 

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or more usable as it moves down.

 

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This, this chain.

 

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Our focus today is stabilization,

 

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which is this necessary step that happens after harvest

 

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and may or may not overlap with primary processing.

 

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Next slide. So stabilization,

 

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uh, we’ll start with a dictionary definition.

 

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Uh, here, uh, stabilization is the process

 

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of reducing the likelihood that something will change,

 

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decline, or fail.

 

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And when you’re trying to make a product, uh, you know,

 

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a product is only as good as its inputs.

 

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And so we’re really trying to ensure with stabilization

 

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that the kelp that goes into that, whatever comes out

 

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of the stabilization process, is gonna pretty much stay

 

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that way until the end of the stated shelf life.

 

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So more specific to seaweed

 

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stabilization is the physical methods of preserving quality

 

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and extending this natural shelf life from hours

 

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to hopefully months.

 

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And that is to make it possible

 

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to turn kelp into value added products year round.

 

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Uh, why is that important?

 

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Because the truth is that most businesses

 

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and most consumers are really not interested in

 

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or in any way prepared to deal with a wet,

 

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raw bulk agricultural commodity like kelp when it

 

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comes out of the ocean.

 

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So folks who are further up the supply chain, that’s farmers

 

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and those most closely partnered with farmers, have

 

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to take on this step

 

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of stabilization in order to access markets.

 

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Next slide. So today you’re gonna hear from three presenters

 

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on four different methods of stabilizing kelp

 

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and the challenges and opportunities

 

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that each of those represents.

 

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And as you listen to those presentations, we invite you

 

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to consider some of the points listed here

 

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to assess which method might be best suited

 

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for your farm if you’re a farmer,

 

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or application, if you are someone who’s operating, um,

 

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further down the value chain.

 

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First of all, what primary processing is required, uh,

 

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as part of, or perhaps prior to these stabilization methods?

 

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So do you already have the skills

 

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and equipment that you need,

 

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or are those gonna be an additional

 

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expense and learning curve?

 

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Second, how much does the stabilization method cost?

 

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And that’s both to set up, which you’ll hear referred to

 

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as CapEx capital expenditure.

 

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And how much does it cost to operate each

 

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time you turn it on?

 

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And this might include utilities, fresh water, labor,

 

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and other supplies.

 

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Once the product is stabilized,

 

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how much is it going to cost to store it?

 

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So in general, ambient temperature storage costs less than

 

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temperature controlled storage, like, uh, refrigeration

 

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or freezers, but it still costs something,

 

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and that has to be factored into your decision making.

 

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We also wanna know what kind of degradation occurs

 

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and over what time period.

 

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So if we think about that, that decline,

 

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even stabilized seaweed is likely

 

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to lose something over time.

 

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And it’s good to know, um, what happens as part

 

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of the actual stabilization method itself.

 

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And then how does the kelp continue

 

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to decline once it’s in store in storage?

 

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And last, but lot not least,

 

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what do your customers actually require in order

 

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to make their products?

 

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So, as with most business decisions,

 

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the best thing you can do is actually work backwards

 

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from your customer’s needs.

 

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And that is to ensure that you’re making a product

 

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that someone actually wants to buy, which of course,

 

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benefits everyone because it’s

 

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how we’re gonna build kelp into a mainstream

 

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market, a mainstream product.

 

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With that, I will hand it over

 

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to our first speaker, Casey Ballen.

 

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Thank you, Sam. Thank you Greenway,

 

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for hosting this event.

 

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Really excited to be here and share a little bit of

 

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what we do at Atlantic Sea Farms.

 

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Uh, we do a lot of work with stabilization, so excited

 

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to talk about that today.

 

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A little bit about our company.

 

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Uh, so we’re woman-run Mission-driven seaweed company

 

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based in Bedford, Maine.

 

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We’ve been around since 2009 when our founders created the

 

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first commercially viable seaweed farm in the United States.

 

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And we kind of pivoted in 2018

 

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and really started this mission to work with folks

 

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that work on the water to grow seaweed in

 

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the off season from Lobstering.

 

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Not all of our partner farmers are, are lobstermen,

 

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but a good majority of them are.

 

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And we have about 31 partner farmers that we work with up

 

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and down the coast of Maine and Rhode Island.

 

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Uh, we primarily work with sugar kelp and skinny kelp,

 

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and we have a team of 25 incredible employees

 

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that are scientists, chefs, salespeople, uh,

 

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economists, a whole range.

 

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We, we say we run five different businesses under one roof.

 

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And, uh, we have a number

 

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of different products in the sales outlets in terms of

 

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where we sell our product.

 

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So we have a retail line, you see here, some

 

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of our retail products, uh, some fermented products,

 

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which I’ll speak more about later.

 

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Some frozen products like our burgers

 

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and our smoothie cubes, uh, as well as a dry line

 

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of products, which I’m not speaking as much about today.

 

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Uh, and we sell these into retail outlets.

 

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Uh, we’re in, you know,

 

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just over 2000 retail stores across the country,

 

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places like Whole Foods, uh,

 

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and other health chains.

 

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And then we also sell food service

 

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and ingredient, you know, into restaurants, universities,

 

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et cetera, and into getting into that space

 

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of selling ingredients for child to be into other products,

 

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which is super exciting.

 

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We’re excited to see that space continue to evolve.

 

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So a little bit about our process

 

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and how when I, uh, think about kelp stabilization,

 

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where my mind goes to my mind goes straight

 

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to harvest season and being the thick of

 

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that kelp coming off the boat and where’s it gonna go?

 

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How are we gonna get it stabilized?

 

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And so during our, our harvest season,

 

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our kelp primarily goes to three different avenues.

 

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Uh, we will either dry the product,

 

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we’ll process it fresh in our facility in Bedford,

 

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or we will bulk freeze it or blast freeze it.

 

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And by blast freezing that kelp,

 

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we can stabilize it really quickly, put it in a state

 

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that it can stay in for up to three years, uh,

 

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is what we’ve determined.

 

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And then from there we have a raw inventory

 

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and we can process that.

 

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We can ferment that product,

 

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but it gives us an opportunity

 

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to be creating product year round, not just during

 

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our three month harvest season here in New England.

 

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And so we’ve been working

 

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and finding ways to, uh, improve

 

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that process over the years.

 

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There’s constantly, lots of innovation to do on how we can,

 

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uh, make that process work smooth

 

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and get that product stabilized within our timeframe.

 

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And a big part of that is our quality

 

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assurance and food safety.

 

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And I, I think we always really try

 

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to talk about this when we talk about stabilization.

 

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’cause really at the end of the day, it talk, it comes back

 

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to producing a really quality, high quality food.

 

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And to have a high standard of food safety

 

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to kelp we all know is a bit of a unique crop.

 

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00:10:27.865 –> 00:10:32.125

And as Sam said, we’re really excited, uh, you know,

 

238

00:10:32.225 –> 00:10:34.645

as I think a seaweed community to take this product

 

239

00:10:34.745 –> 00:10:36.365

and make it more mainstream on the market.

 

240

00:10:36.505 –> 00:10:39.005

But while it’s still a little bit niche right now,

 

241

00:10:39.135 –> 00:10:41.965

especially in the food space, making sure we keep quality

 

242

00:10:41.965 –> 00:10:43.885

and food safety at the utmost importance will

 

243

00:10:43.885 –> 00:10:45.085

be really important.

 

244

00:10:45.225 –> 00:10:49.485

So a few of the guidelines that we go through,

 

245

00:10:49.505 –> 00:10:53.605

and here’s a photo, uh, of our kelp bean landed at the dock.

 

246

00:10:53.605 –> 00:10:55.805

So you can see the boat, you see the kelp just came

 

247

00:10:55.805 –> 00:10:56.965

off, it’s put on a pallet.

 

248

00:10:57.585 –> 00:10:59.245

And this photo was taken from

 

249

00:10:59.245 –> 00:11:00.725

inside a refrigerated box truck.

 

250

00:11:00.725 –> 00:11:02.205

That kelps gonna get put right in that truck

 

251

00:11:02.205 –> 00:11:03.525

and to go in refrigeration.

 

252

00:11:04.265 –> 00:11:07.725

We asked our partner farmers that within 10 hours

 

253

00:11:07.945 –> 00:11:09.765

of starting their harvest, they come in

 

254

00:11:09.765 –> 00:11:11.045

and land their kelp at the dock.

 

255

00:11:11.305 –> 00:11:14.965

And we immediately, uh, put that product into refrigeration

 

256

00:11:15.375 –> 00:11:18.165

where we’ve determined we feel comfortable with it staying

 

257

00:11:18.225 –> 00:11:19.685

for up to 72 hours.

 

258

00:11:20.225 –> 00:11:21.805

And after 72 hours, we wanna make sure

 

259

00:11:21.805 –> 00:11:25.765

that process has been stabilized, um, by any of our three

 

260

00:11:27.085 –> 00:11:28.925

stabilization methods that we use right now.

 

261

00:11:29.465 –> 00:11:32.285

And each of our bags are tracked.

 

262

00:11:32.285 –> 00:11:34.885

They have their own, uh, a unique lock code

 

263

00:11:34.885 –> 00:11:36.285

that has a farmer, a date,

 

264

00:11:36.445 –> 00:11:37.925

a farm site, and a species on them.

 

265

00:11:38.345 –> 00:11:40.605

So we can track that product all the way from

 

266

00:11:41.935 –> 00:11:44.945

it’s harvest all the way into the finished good being in a

 

267

00:11:45.105 –> 00:11:47.065

fermented seaweed salad on the shelf in California.

 

268

00:11:48.225 –> 00:11:50.565

And then in our processing facility, most

 

269

00:11:50.565 –> 00:11:52.005

of our product does end up coming

 

270

00:11:52.005 –> 00:11:54.245

through our processing facility, whether it’s during

 

271

00:11:54.945 –> 00:11:56.405

the harvest season in the spring,

 

272

00:11:56.905 –> 00:11:58.485

or it’s when we’re working

 

273

00:11:58.485 –> 00:12:00.685

through our frozen inventory the rest of the year.

 

274

00:12:01.105 –> 00:12:05.085

And we’re an FS two F certified facility with the 97 score.

 

275

00:12:05.705 –> 00:12:06.805

And through that

 

276

00:12:06.825 –> 00:12:09.085

and through our strict food safety plans, we have a lot of,

 

277

00:12:09.665 –> 00:12:12.165

uh, best practices and SOPs

 

278

00:12:12.165 –> 00:12:16.045

and GMPs in place to make sure that we adhere to, uh,

 

279

00:12:16.265 –> 00:12:17.365

all those policies and,

 

280

00:12:17.385 –> 00:12:19.605

and keep our, our good S two F store.

 

281

00:12:19.735 –> 00:12:22.325

We’re also MSC organic and FDA inspected.

 

282

00:12:23.065 –> 00:12:26.005

So it’s been a, a big work and we’ve had a, a very dedicated

 

283

00:12:26.145 –> 00:12:28.925

and experienced team helping us throughout the process

 

284

00:12:28.945 –> 00:12:32.725

of really figuring out how to create our own standards

 

285

00:12:32.745 –> 00:12:35.045

to make sure we can process kelp safely.

 

286

00:12:38.805 –> 00:12:40.785

So a little bit more about blast freezing

 

287

00:12:41.365 –> 00:12:44.145

and, uh, how we’ve done it and,

 

288

00:12:44.165 –> 00:12:45.585

and how it’s worked well for us.

 

289

00:12:46.205 –> 00:12:50.345

So you can see here these are some, uh, bags of kelp.

 

290

00:12:50.645 –> 00:12:53.105

And one of the reasons I love blast freezing is,

 

291

00:12:53.405 –> 00:12:56.825

and the way that we do it is that white bag, you see

 

292

00:12:56.825 –> 00:12:57.945

that bulk bag, you see the farmer

 

293

00:12:57.945 –> 00:12:59.425

harvested directly into that bag.

 

294

00:12:59.485 –> 00:13:00.545

It was put on a truck

 

295

00:13:00.845 –> 00:13:02.465

and then it went right into a blast cell.

 

296

00:13:02.845 –> 00:13:04.705

And it’s, you know, we don’t have to touch, we don’t have

 

297

00:13:04.705 –> 00:13:05.785

to put extra labor towards that.

 

298

00:13:05.785 –> 00:13:07.025

That product comes from the farmer.

 

299

00:13:07.605 –> 00:13:09.385

It won’t even go to our facility sometimes.

 

300

00:13:09.425 –> 00:13:11.345

And we’ll go straight into a blast cell to be frozen.

 

301

00:13:11.925 –> 00:13:13.705

And those blast cells, they depend a little bit,

 

302

00:13:13.765 –> 00:13:16.225

but they run maybe on average at minus 25 degrees.

 

303

00:13:16.325 –> 00:13:20.025

We find that they work a lot better than a kind

 

304

00:13:20.025 –> 00:13:22.385

of conventional freezer that’s running in the minus 10

 

305

00:13:22.385 –> 00:13:23.425

to 10 degree range.

 

306

00:13:23.805 –> 00:13:26.305

It is able to freeze the kelp solid

 

307

00:13:26.325 –> 00:13:29.225

and not let any water seep out of the bag.

 

308

00:13:29.985 –> 00:13:34.685

And we will store that product at a commercial freezer for

 

309

00:13:35.535 –> 00:13:36.995

up to about two and a half years.

 

310

00:13:36.995 –> 00:13:39.835

And we try to use it be through before the three year mark.

 

311

00:13:41.215 –> 00:13:45.155

Um, and we have, we have some

 

312

00:13:45.155 –> 00:13:46.755

of our own blast freezing equipment.

 

313

00:13:46.755 –> 00:13:47.995

We have rented equipment in the past.

 

314

00:13:48.055 –> 00:13:49.515

We also use public freezers.

 

315

00:13:49.515 –> 00:13:51.075

This is a photo from a public freezer.

 

316

00:13:51.815 –> 00:13:52.995

It all comes with its ups

 

317

00:13:52.995 –> 00:13:56.195

and downsides to sort of maintain equipment access

 

318

00:13:56.215 –> 00:14:00.075

to public freezer blast storage, uh, space and scheduling.

 

319

00:14:00.295 –> 00:14:01.875

And especially during harvest season when you know

 

320

00:14:01.875 –> 00:14:03.395

that product has to come out of the water

 

321

00:14:03.495 –> 00:14:04.635

and it has to go somewhere.

 

322

00:14:05.415 –> 00:14:06.595

But we’ve been able to get,

 

323

00:14:06.895 –> 00:14:08.915

get all product frozen one way or another.

 

324

00:14:09.775 –> 00:14:11.675

Um, but there’s definitely some challenges,

 

325

00:14:11.695 –> 00:14:13.635

and I’ll maybe speak a little bit more to this later,

 

326

00:14:13.695 –> 00:14:17.595

but we’ve seen the price of blast freezing go up, the amount

 

327

00:14:17.595 –> 00:14:19.955

of blast freezing publicly available in commercial spaces,

 

328

00:14:20.555 –> 00:14:21.915

decrease, especially in New England.

 

329

00:14:22.535 –> 00:14:25.275

And we’ve also seen just our monthly storage rates go up

 

330

00:14:25.275 –> 00:14:27.515

each of these bags as a pallet position in

 

331

00:14:27.555 –> 00:14:28.595

a cold storage facility.

 

332

00:14:29.215 –> 00:14:31.275

And so that’s been definitely an increasing

 

333

00:14:31.275 –> 00:14:32.595

challenge of this process.

 

334

00:14:33.765 –> 00:14:36.345

Uh, also we’ll process.

 

335

00:14:36.565 –> 00:14:38.385

So I had mentioned we process fresh kelp

 

336

00:14:38.385 –> 00:14:41.225

and frozen kelp throughout the year into our retail line.

 

337

00:14:41.515 –> 00:14:44.185

We’ll process that product. And all of our, our frozen line

 

338

00:14:44.185 –> 00:14:46.625

of products are our cubes, our ready cut,

 

339

00:14:46.975 –> 00:14:49.305

also get blast frost frozen, um,

 

340

00:14:49.645 –> 00:14:51.965

before they’re packaged in their, or their case pack

 

341

00:14:51.965 –> 00:14:53.645

and distributed across the country.

 

342

00:14:57.475 –> 00:15:01.455

And also, fermentation is another, uh, method

 

343

00:15:01.455 –> 00:15:03.015

of stabilization that we use.

 

344

00:15:03.675 –> 00:15:07.455

So we have a about 50 square foot space, pretty similar

 

345

00:15:07.475 –> 00:15:10.255

to a commercial kitchen, and we make three products out

 

346

00:15:10.255 –> 00:15:12.815

of there right now, a fermented seaweed salad, a sea chi,

 

347

00:15:12.815 –> 00:15:16.495

and a spicy, you can see here some folks starting the

 

348

00:15:17.395 –> 00:15:21.615

mixing process for a batch of seaweed salads.

 

349

00:15:21.675 –> 00:15:24.495

So, real quick, I’ll just walk you through that process.

 

350

00:15:24.835 –> 00:15:27.855

We, we do about 10,000 product pounds of product in a day.

 

351

00:15:28.145 –> 00:15:30.815

Three different recipes for our three different products,

 

352

00:15:31.315 –> 00:15:33.895

but we’ll measure everything out, get ourselves already,

 

353

00:15:34.195 –> 00:15:36.695

and then we’re dumping product onto the table.

 

354

00:15:36.755 –> 00:15:41.615

We do a thousand pounds an hour, uh, of, of product.

 

355

00:15:42.625 –> 00:15:45.655

We’ll mix that up, we’ll pack it into a tote or a barrel,

 

356

00:15:45.915 –> 00:15:47.375

and we’ll let that ferment for five

 

357

00:15:47.375 –> 00:15:50.335

or 10 days till we reach the desired pH level.

 

358

00:15:50.805 –> 00:15:52.575

Then we move that product into a cooler.

 

359

00:15:53.035 –> 00:15:55.295

We don’t use any pasteurization.

 

360

00:15:55.435 –> 00:15:58.095

So our product is live throughout its whole shelf life till

 

361

00:15:58.095 –> 00:16:00.535

it reaches the, the consumer, which means that that product

 

362

00:16:00.585 –> 00:16:04.295

after being fermented lives, uh, in refrigeration

 

363

00:16:04.835 –> 00:16:06.695

at our facility in distribution,

 

364

00:16:07.075 –> 00:16:10.175

and with the, when the consumer buys, it goes in the fridge.

 

365

00:16:10.795 –> 00:16:12.495

Um, but we’ll take that product out of the fridge,

 

366

00:16:12.745 –> 00:16:14.895

we’ll then pack it very manual process,

 

367

00:16:14.995 –> 00:16:17.015

but we’ll pack it by hand into either a retailer,

 

368

00:16:17.175 –> 00:16:18.295

a food service container,

 

369

00:16:18.715 –> 00:16:22.855

and then ship those out, uh, to customers throughout the US

 

370

00:16:27.335 –> 00:16:29.035

and some of our opportunities

 

371

00:16:29.415 –> 00:16:33.035

and challenges, uh, looking forward

 

372

00:16:33.215 –> 00:16:35.315

and kind of how we’re thinking about stabilization

 

373

00:16:35.335 –> 00:16:38.675

as we continue to improve our process and grow.

 

374

00:16:39.575 –> 00:16:41.795

So we’re, we’re working on some automation.

 

375

00:16:42.135 –> 00:16:44.395

Uh, we, about, about a year ago,

 

376

00:16:44.395 –> 00:16:45.635

we purchased a labeling machine.

 

377

00:16:45.635 –> 00:16:48.155

We are applying all the labels essentially by hand

 

378

00:16:48.255 –> 00:16:49.355

to all of our jars.

 

379

00:16:49.775 –> 00:16:52.315

And getting a label machine in here makes us

 

380

00:16:52.315 –> 00:16:53.435

be a lot more efficient.

 

381

00:16:53.935 –> 00:16:56.915

Uh, you know, it had a, a pretty decent payoff.

 

382

00:16:57.135 –> 00:17:00.075

And through that we’re creating better jobs for people.

 

383

00:17:00.075 –> 00:17:01.915

Instead of doing one monotonous task all day,

 

384

00:17:02.015 –> 00:17:04.195

people are able to help work a line throw.

 

385

00:17:04.195 –> 00:17:06.075

They’re moving around, they’re doing different jobs,

 

386

00:17:06.505 –> 00:17:09.355

working on developing our people, having them, you know,

 

387

00:17:09.815 –> 00:17:12.355

use their brain more and use their hands a little bit less

 

388

00:17:12.375 –> 00:17:13.995

and, and create better jobs for people

 

389

00:17:13.995 –> 00:17:15.635

to create more consistent work as well.

 

390

00:17:15.655 –> 00:17:17.075

And we found that with automation,

 

391

00:17:17.075 –> 00:17:19.035

we’re being able to do that.

 

392

00:17:19.735 –> 00:17:22.675

Um, we’re working on how we can use better storage space.

 

393

00:17:22.735 –> 00:17:24.035

You saw our bags in that freezer.

 

394

00:17:24.035 –> 00:17:25.715

There’s a lot of free space in that freezer.

 

395

00:17:25.855 –> 00:17:27.635

How can we be more efficient in the space

 

396

00:17:27.635 –> 00:17:28.715

that we’re already paying for?

 

397

00:17:28.805 –> 00:17:31.435

Especially as we see the cost of storage continuing

 

398

00:17:31.435 –> 00:17:34.955

to go up, we’re expanding our fermented retail footprint.

 

399

00:17:35.055 –> 00:17:38.715

We have a couple new opportunities possibly in the pipeline.

 

400

00:17:38.715 –> 00:17:40.035

We’re excited to see that grow

 

401

00:17:40.535 –> 00:17:43.555

and our ferment continue to increase in popularity

 

402

00:17:43.675 –> 00:17:44.995

and get more placements around the country.

 

403

00:17:45.015 –> 00:17:47.955

We think it’s a really approachable way for people

 

404

00:17:48.015 –> 00:17:49.645

to try kelp and e kelp.

 

405

00:17:50.025 –> 00:17:51.685

And, you know, we’ve gotten a lot

 

406

00:17:51.685 –> 00:17:52.765

of good feedback around it.

 

407

00:17:53.025 –> 00:17:55.725

And then lastly, we’re looking at other methods

 

408

00:17:55.945 –> 00:17:59.605

and we haven’t made a whole, uh, we haven’t put a ton

 

409

00:17:59.605 –> 00:18:01.245

of work into that yet, but I’m really excited

 

410

00:18:01.245 –> 00:18:02.565

that we’re gonna start working on that more

 

411

00:18:02.565 –> 00:18:05.205

and more on what are other non tempt controlled ways

 

412

00:18:05.205 –> 00:18:06.405

that we could stabilize product.

 

413

00:18:06.945 –> 00:18:10.645

You know, some of our challenges listed here is the storage

 

414

00:18:10.695 –> 00:18:12.045

costs, whether it’s frozen

 

415

00:18:12.185 –> 00:18:14.005

or refrigerated is more expensive

 

416

00:18:14.065 –> 00:18:15.965

to store it, to ship that product.

 

417

00:18:16.785 –> 00:18:19.765

Uh, and also the climate impact of working with product

 

418

00:18:19.875 –> 00:18:23.805

that is in a cold storage facility, um,

 

419

00:18:23.865 –> 00:18:25.365

is definitely something we’re very aware of.

 

420

00:18:25.465 –> 00:18:26.685

And, and thinking about

 

421

00:18:26.685 –> 00:18:29.085

and thinking about those advantage of being, working

 

422

00:18:29.085 –> 00:18:31.485

with a dry product workforce.

 

423

00:18:31.845 –> 00:18:34.525

Challenges, I think many businesses have experienced

 

424

00:18:34.525 –> 00:18:36.325

that PEs, especially in the past few years,

 

425

00:18:36.425 –> 00:18:39.165

but especially with some of these more manual tasks,

 

426

00:18:39.165 –> 00:18:40.805

finding people that are willing to do that work.

 

427

00:18:40.805 –> 00:18:42.805

Especially it can be in a monotonous work

 

428

00:18:42.805 –> 00:18:43.845

that’s happening day to day.

 

429

00:18:44.865 –> 00:18:45.965

Um, and complexity

 

430

00:18:45.965 –> 00:18:47.885

of scaling our fermentation has been a challenge.

 

431

00:18:47.975 –> 00:18:51.575

We’ve, we have our room running pretty much at full throttle

 

432

00:18:51.575 –> 00:18:53.615

right now, and so we’re strategizing in ways on

 

433

00:18:53.615 –> 00:18:56.885

how can we increase, uh, our capacity

 

434

00:18:57.265 –> 00:19:00.205

and find the right machines that can, can help us do that.

 

435

00:19:01.265 –> 00:19:03.925

And lastly, I think last reason has worked really well

 

436

00:19:03.985 –> 00:19:06.325

for us, but few folks are blast racing.

 

437

00:19:06.325 –> 00:19:09.805

There’s lots of other ways that people are looking at ways

 

438

00:19:09.805 –> 00:19:13.245

to freeze fish, freeze other, uh, foods

 

439

00:19:13.265 –> 00:19:14.565

and agricultural products.

 

440

00:19:14.565 –> 00:19:15.005

And instead,

 

441

00:19:22.115 –> 00:19:25.405

fish we see available.

 

442

00:19:25.535 –> 00:19:29.085

Blast. Continue to there.

 

443

00:19:31.905 –> 00:19:35.915

I’m at my 10 minutes, I will turn it over

 

444

00:19:36.055 –> 00:19:38.275

to any questions that people might have.

 

445

00:19:42.145 –> 00:19:43.515

Awesome. Thank you Casey.

 

446

00:19:44.255 –> 00:19:47.555

Um, we have had two questions come in in the chat so far.

 

447

00:19:48.095 –> 00:19:50.635

Uh, quick reminder that if you would like to ask a question,

 

448

00:19:50.735 –> 00:19:53.995

please put that in the chat or put your hand up in Zoom

 

449

00:19:54.055 –> 00:19:55.115

and we will call on you.

 

450

00:19:56.255 –> 00:19:59.635

Uh, first question, Casey is, what is the maximum weight

 

451

00:19:59.975 –> 00:20:02.915

of the kelp in the bags going into that blast freezer?

 

452

00:20:04.985 –> 00:20:08.745

Uh, we, we try to do around a thousand pounds.

 

453

00:20:08.775 –> 00:20:10.265

It’s what we ask farmers to do.

 

454

00:20:10.285 –> 00:20:13.625

We found it’s historically been the best way to work with.

 

455

00:20:14.445 –> 00:20:16.545

Now farmers are out working on the water

 

456

00:20:16.565 –> 00:20:19.065

and no one has a scale on their boat really to measure that.

 

457

00:20:19.065 –> 00:20:20.545

Exactly. So it’s all give and take,

 

458

00:20:20.645 –> 00:20:23.225

but that’s been what we’ve targeted in the past.

 

459

00:20:25.535 –> 00:20:26.585

Awesome. Thank you.

 

460

00:20:27.845 –> 00:20:30.545

Um, Kristen asked, what are some

 

461

00:20:30.545 –> 00:20:32.825

of the non temperature controlled stabilization

 

462

00:20:32.855 –> 00:20:34.465

processes you are looking into?

 

463

00:20:36.165 –> 00:20:38.225

Um, so we’re looking into drying.

 

464

00:20:38.315 –> 00:20:40.905

We’ve done some drying, we sell, uh,

 

465

00:20:41.665 –> 00:20:43.505

a few dried products right now

 

466

00:20:44.085 –> 00:20:45.825

and looking at different ways that, how we can do

 

467

00:20:45.825 –> 00:20:47.125

that in a cost effective way, way,

 

468

00:20:47.195 –> 00:20:50.205

also another very energy intensive process.

 

469

00:20:51.145 –> 00:20:53.365

Uh, but then once that product is dried,

 

470

00:20:53.365 –> 00:20:55.005

it can stay in ambient storage.

 

471

00:20:58.405 –> 00:21:02.615

Great. Chuck of Oregon, seaweed asks,

 

472

00:21:02.755 –> 00:21:03.975

how do you control the quality

 

473

00:21:03.995 –> 00:21:05.975

of the kelp you get from different farms?

 

474

00:21:06.915 –> 00:21:11.095

That’s a great question. We have a fantastic supply team.

 

475

00:21:11.595 –> 00:21:14.335

Uh, two people on our team dedicated full-time to working

 

476

00:21:14.445 –> 00:21:17.135

with our farmers and doing farm checks.

 

477

00:21:17.915 –> 00:21:20.935

Uh, and, you know, they’re the real experts here on exactly

 

478

00:21:20.935 –> 00:21:22.015

what happens out in the ocean.

 

479

00:21:22.035 –> 00:21:24.655

But working with, working from the very beginning

 

480

00:21:24.655 –> 00:21:28.575

with site selection, looking at the depth of the water,

 

481

00:21:28.755 –> 00:21:30.895

how much the current is moving, making sure we’re set up

 

482

00:21:30.895 –> 00:21:32.415

for success with our site selection.

 

483

00:21:32.415 –> 00:21:35.055

And then working and training our farmers on what to look

 

484

00:21:35.055 –> 00:21:38.725

for and how to grow, how to set up their farms, how to, uh,

 

485

00:21:38.745 –> 00:21:40.965

deploy their seed, how to harvest.

 

486

00:21:41.305 –> 00:21:46.165

And we also have a grading, uh, platform that we work with,

 

487

00:21:46.165 –> 00:21:47.285

our part with our farmers on,

 

488

00:21:47.285 –> 00:21:48.925

in case we ever do run into issues where

 

489

00:21:49.835 –> 00:21:51.615

the kelp is not at a food grade quality.

 

490

00:21:51.715 –> 00:21:55.255

We, we work with our farmers to, to, uh, figure

 

491

00:21:55.255 –> 00:21:56.335

that out on the boat and,

 

492

00:21:56.335 –> 00:21:58.015

and come up with a plan with our team in the moment.

 

493

00:22:00.505 –> 00:22:04.545

Awesome. A these are asks, um,

 

494

00:22:04.735 –> 00:22:08.225

what is your processing capacity if, whether you think of

 

495

00:22:08.225 –> 00:22:09.465

that per hour or per season

 

496

00:22:09.525 –> 00:22:12.345

or whatever, whatever you can share on on that.

 

497

00:22:14.525 –> 00:22:18.025

Uh, I mean, it’s so, uh, it’s, it’s a tough question

 

498

00:22:18.025 –> 00:22:20.145

to answer exactly and how much we can pump

 

499

00:22:20.145 –> 00:22:21.785

through our facility maybe in an hour and a day.

 

500

00:22:21.785 –> 00:22:23.465

It’s a, it’s a matter of how many,

 

501

00:22:24.915 –> 00:22:26.375

how many shifts we might run.

 

502

00:22:26.835 –> 00:22:31.615

Um, but we have, you know, during a harvest season, we’ve,

 

503

00:22:31.985 –> 00:22:34.655

we’ve harvested up close to a million pounds of kelp,

 

504

00:22:34.655 –> 00:22:37.335

and we got all that stabilized within our 72 hour window,

 

505

00:22:37.335 –> 00:22:40.295

whether it’s in our, our drying or free, our blast freezing

 

506

00:22:40.355 –> 00:22:41.815

or our processing route.

 

507

00:22:42.975 –> 00:22:45.115

I’d say our, our weekly capacities

 

508

00:22:46.505 –> 00:22:48.885

can be somewhere in about the 200,000

 

509

00:22:49.065 –> 00:22:51.005

to 250,000 pound range.

 

510

00:22:53.985 –> 00:22:57.925

Perfect. Do you, uh, provide the bags to farmers?

 

511

00:22:58.145 –> 00:22:59.765

And if so, would, are you able

 

512

00:22:59.765 –> 00:23:02.045

to share which types of bags you use?

 

513

00:23:03.365 –> 00:23:05.985

Uh, yeah. We, we do provide the bags from farmers.

 

514

00:23:05.985 –> 00:23:07.625

They’re a, a bulk bag.

 

515

00:23:08.005 –> 00:23:10.105

Uh, when we started out using those bags,

 

516

00:23:10.105 –> 00:23:11.225

we bought them from Uline.

 

517

00:23:11.925 –> 00:23:15.545

Uh, since then we’ve, we found a, a company

 

518

00:23:15.605 –> 00:23:18.145

to make them custom for us for a specific size,

 

519

00:23:18.165 –> 00:23:19.465

so they fit well on the pallets.

 

520

00:23:19.465 –> 00:23:21.905

But I would direct anyone to Uline as a great place to,

 

521

00:23:22.365 –> 00:23:23.985

to get those bags and just make sure

 

522

00:23:23.985 –> 00:23:25.265

they’re our food contact bag.

 

523

00:23:25.285 –> 00:23:26.585

But I believe Uline has them.

 

524

00:23:31.195 –> 00:23:34.655

Um, Allison asks, uh, regarding the drying,

 

525

00:23:34.655 –> 00:23:36.535

and I know we’re gonna go into,

 

526

00:23:36.735 –> 00:23:39.735

I hear a lot more about drying from, uh, from Akiva,

 

527

00:23:39.735 –> 00:23:42.335

but, um, would you share any about what your, what kind

 

528

00:23:42.335 –> 00:23:43.695

of drying method you use?

 

529

00:23:45.295 –> 00:23:47.425

Yeah, so we, we’ve worked with co-packers for that.

 

530

00:23:47.525 –> 00:23:49.905

We don’t do any drying ourselves,

 

531

00:23:50.045 –> 00:23:52.745

and I’d say I’m not as much of an expert in that category

 

532

00:23:52.745 –> 00:23:53.865

because it’s not something we do.

 

533

00:23:54.365 –> 00:23:59.225

Um, but we’ve looked at natural gas dryers, dehydration, um,

 

534

00:23:59.285 –> 00:24:01.345

and another of other different drying methods.

 

535

00:24:06.005 –> 00:24:07.595

Great. And we’ll do one more.

 

536

00:24:07.975 –> 00:24:09.035

Uh, how are,

 

537

00:24:09.375 –> 00:24:13.195

how do your farmers clean the kelp on the boat before they bag it?

 

538

00:24:14.565 –> 00:24:16.015

Fantastic question as well.

 

539

00:24:16.215 –> 00:24:19.535

I, we, uh, we ask our farmers,

 

540

00:24:19.635 –> 00:24:22.695

we have a whole SOP on how we ask ’em to clean the kelp,

 

541

00:24:22.695 –> 00:24:24.695

but often they’re just spraying it down with sea water

 

542

00:24:25.395 –> 00:24:27.335

and doing a visual inspection as

 

543

00:24:27.335 –> 00:24:29.295

that kelps coming into their, onto the boat.

 

544

00:24:30.035 –> 00:24:32.175

And so anything that might be as a silty tip

 

545

00:24:32.275 –> 00:24:35.655

or particularly, uh, has more pest pressure,

 

546

00:24:35.655 –> 00:24:37.215

we may ask them just to cut off and,

 

547

00:24:37.515 –> 00:24:39.135

and not put into the harvest bag.

 

548

00:24:42.665 –> 00:24:43.985

Excellent. Thank you so much, Casey.

 

549

00:24:44.645 –> 00:24:46.025

Uh, we really appreciate you taking

 

550

00:24:46.025 –> 00:24:47.145

the time to share all this with us.

 

551

00:24:47.715 –> 00:24:48.865

Thank you. My pleasure.

 

552

00:24:51.585 –> 00:24:54.565

All right. Moving on to barnacle Akiva.

 

553

00:24:54.565 –> 00:24:56.805

Would you tell us what you know about drying?

 

554

00:24:58.145 –> 00:25:01.375

Great. Thank you Sam and Grace for setting this up.

 

555

00:25:01.755 –> 00:25:04.775

Um, my name’s Akiva Ebler with Barnacle Foods, um,

 

556

00:25:05.675 –> 00:25:08.375

and I’ll talk about efficient kelp drying.

 

557

00:25:10.265 –> 00:25:13.005

Um, next slide please. So we’re based in Juneau, Alaska.

 

558

00:25:13.985 –> 00:25:18.525

Um, we were established in 2016, um, starting off

 

559

00:25:18.525 –> 00:25:22.705

with kelp salsa and then now have a around 20

 

560

00:25:22.965 –> 00:25:24.065

or so products.

 

561

00:25:24.405 –> 00:25:29.205

Um, we use wild harvested bulk kelp for,

 

562

00:25:29.825 –> 00:25:31.805

uh, most of our products right now.

 

563

00:25:31.985 –> 00:25:36.605

So we use the stip of the bulk kelp, um, in our hot sauce

 

564

00:25:36.665 –> 00:25:38.965

and salsa in our fronds.

 

565

00:25:39.265 –> 00:25:43.655

We dry, um, and use in our dry blends and our chili crisps.

 

566

00:25:43.655 –> 00:25:45.495

And then we also use farmed sugar kelp

 

567

00:25:46.555 –> 00:25:48.215

for our dry blends in chili crisp.

 

568

00:25:48.395 –> 00:25:51.615

And so there’s just a picture of, uh, a kelp bed

 

569

00:25:51.885 –> 00:25:53.375

that we’ll go out and harvest from.

 

570

00:25:53.675 –> 00:25:56.295

And then some farmed, I think that’s ribbon kelp,

 

571

00:25:56.875 –> 00:26:00.345

which we’ve used also, but we mostly use farmed sugar kelp.

 

572

00:26:00.965 –> 00:26:02.625

Um, and so we’ll go out throughout the summer

 

573

00:26:02.925 –> 00:26:07.605

and hand harvest bulk kelp from, from big healthy,

 

574

00:26:08.185 –> 00:26:11.525

uh, kelp forests, bulk kelp forests around southeast Alaska.

 

575

00:26:12.265 –> 00:26:17.045

Um, sometime usually within five to 15 hour

 

576

00:26:17.595 –> 00:26:19.845

boat ride, um, away from Juneau.

 

577

00:26:21.285 –> 00:26:22.265

Um, next slide please.

 

578

00:26:25.035 –> 00:26:26.935

So why drying?

 

579

00:26:27.235 –> 00:26:30.215

Um, in southeast Alaska especially,

 

580

00:26:30.605 –> 00:26:35.415

there’s really big distances between, um, farms or kelp beds

 

581

00:26:35.415 –> 00:26:38.295

and towns, and most of the towns are not connected

 

582

00:26:38.295 –> 00:26:39.935

to any road system.

 

583

00:26:40.705 –> 00:26:44.755

And so here in Juneau, we’re not connected to a road system.

 

584

00:26:44.765 –> 00:26:48.115

We’re essentially an island. Um, the nearest road is, um,

 

585

00:26:48.365 –> 00:26:52.565

Hayes, and for scale, the, the distance between Hayes

 

586

00:26:52.565 –> 00:26:54.925

and Skagway and the north end of southeast Alaska

 

587

00:26:55.425 –> 00:26:58.165

to ke acan at the bottom is about 280 nautical miles.

 

588

00:26:58.785 –> 00:27:01.765

Um, so for the Northeast folks, that’s

 

589

00:27:02.405 –> 00:27:06.085

a bit farther than Boston to the, um, Canadian border

 

590

00:27:06.115 –> 00:27:07.765

with Maine by water.

 

591

00:27:08.755 –> 00:27:12.615

And so the logistics of shipping frozen wet kelp, um,

 

592

00:27:13.075 –> 00:27:14.375

is really difficult around here.

 

593

00:27:15.035 –> 00:27:18.415

Um, kelp is about 90 to 95% water, uh, bulk kelp

 

594

00:27:18.415 –> 00:27:22.415

and sugar kelp are at some of the most watery kelps.

 

595

00:27:23.345 –> 00:27:25.165

Um, and so when you’re shipping that,

 

596

00:27:25.225 –> 00:27:26.965

if you’re shipping it wet, refrigerated

 

597

00:27:26.965 –> 00:27:30.005

or frozen, you’re shipping 90, 95% water.

 

598

00:27:30.585 –> 00:27:33.405

And so that’s a lot of money spent on freight

 

599

00:27:33.905 –> 00:27:35.645

for just moving around water around the country.

 

600

00:27:36.585 –> 00:27:40.915

Um, and then, like Casey was talking about, kelp needs

 

601

00:27:40.915 –> 00:27:44.115

to be stabilized within about 72 hours of harvest

 

602

00:27:44.735 –> 00:27:46.115

and being taken out of the seawater.

 

603

00:27:47.155 –> 00:27:51.655

And dry kelp is then a stable shipping, um, stable product.

 

604

00:27:51.795 –> 00:27:56.535

It will be shipped. And, um, we

 

605

00:27:57.235 –> 00:28:00.935

go for, that’s a a is water activity, um, a measure of

 

606

00:28:00.935 –> 00:28:03.415

how much active water there is in a product.

 

607

00:28:03.955 –> 00:28:07.575

And 0.8, 0.8 is the limit for, um,

 

608

00:28:08.365 –> 00:28:09.775

most mold and bacteria growth,

 

609

00:28:09.795 –> 00:28:11.895

but we aim to dry it down to a 0.5.

 

610

00:28:13.195 –> 00:28:14.895

And the other reason for, for drying

 

611

00:28:14.895 –> 00:28:16.495

for us is final product quality.

 

612

00:28:16.555 –> 00:28:19.855

So we use our dried kelp in chili crisps and seasonings

 

613

00:28:20.235 –> 00:28:21.295

and our kelp powder.

 

614

00:28:22.355 –> 00:28:26.055

Um, and for a lot of kelp farmers, uh, powder is one

 

615

00:28:26.055 –> 00:28:30.605

of the most, it seems as, as the market is emerging, powder,

 

616

00:28:31.105 –> 00:28:34.125

um, is one of the most useful forms of kelp.

 

617

00:28:34.625 –> 00:28:39.295

Um, for smoothies, nutraceuticals, um, food

 

618

00:28:39.435 –> 00:28:44.125

and ingredients kelp powder, um, might be one

 

619

00:28:44.125 –> 00:28:45.285

of the biggest products,

 

620

00:28:45.305 –> 00:28:47.365

and so it’s also the easiest to ship around.

 

621

00:28:48.155 –> 00:28:52.845

Next slide please. So our

 

622

00:28:52.845 –> 00:28:56.605

current, um, dehydration method, we use a rotary drum dryer.

 

623

00:28:56.605 –> 00:28:59.325

We have two of these, um, drum dryers.

 

624

00:29:00.105 –> 00:29:04.985

Um, they are repurposed Chinese tea dryers,

 

625

00:29:05.125 –> 00:29:08.385

uh, that we ordered from China several years ago.

 

626

00:29:08.845 –> 00:29:11.225

And so that’s just one of them closed up.

 

627

00:29:11.225 –> 00:29:13.905

And then on the, on the right is, um, some sort of

 

628

00:29:14.415 –> 00:29:17.825

half dried kelp, still a lot of moisture in there, um,

 

629

00:29:18.005 –> 00:29:19.785

but in the middle of the drying run.

 

630

00:29:20.655 –> 00:29:25.255

Next slide please. So these have really been

 

631

00:29:25.255 –> 00:29:26.335

a proof of concept for us.

 

632

00:29:26.795 –> 00:29:31.775

Um, they work for our purposes with some pros and cons.

 

633

00:29:32.035 –> 00:29:35.295

So the, the labor required for our drum dryers

 

634

00:29:36.195 –> 00:29:39.655

as we put about two to three hours of labor per day.

 

635

00:29:39.995 –> 00:29:43.465

Um, and that’ll give us about 400 pounds

 

636

00:29:43.465 –> 00:29:44.585

of wet kelp per day.

 

637

00:29:45.405 –> 00:29:46.825

And, um,

 

638

00:29:47.675 –> 00:29:50.945

which will give us about 20 pounds per day.

 

639

00:29:51.445 –> 00:29:54.665

Um, so 10 pounds per dryer.

 

640

00:29:55.565 –> 00:29:58.705

And so because it’s a batch system, uh,

 

641

00:29:58.705 –> 00:30:02.745

there’s obviously a lot of labor for not so much weight.

 

642

00:30:03.535 –> 00:30:06.305

When we get a harvest in, I should step back

 

643

00:30:06.305 –> 00:30:08.425

and say we, we do freeze a lot of our kelp first,

 

644

00:30:09.055 –> 00:30:11.745

when we get a harvest in, we’re getting around 10,000 pounds

 

645

00:30:11.765 –> 00:30:14.425

of kelp either farmed or wild harvested.

 

646

00:30:14.845 –> 00:30:16.625

And we will, um, put

 

647

00:30:16.625 –> 00:30:20.625

that all into four gallon buckets weighed out, um,

 

648

00:30:20.625 –> 00:30:23.185

both frons and stip, and we’ll freeze those.

 

649

00:30:24.285 –> 00:30:28.825

Um, and so we have freezers, um, on site

 

650

00:30:29.295 –> 00:30:32.785

that around at cut at negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

651

00:30:32.925 –> 00:30:36.325

And, uh, throughout the year we’ll pull those,

 

652

00:30:36.895 –> 00:30:41.645

we’ll thaw them and, uh, dry them.

 

653

00:30:42.595 –> 00:30:45.975

Um, as the year goes on, we’ve actually found that more,

 

654

00:30:48.705 –> 00:30:50.235

some people, you know, freezing

 

655

00:30:50.335 –> 00:30:51.835

and thawing releases some of the water

 

656

00:30:51.855 –> 00:30:53.275

and can break down a little bit of the cells,

 

657

00:30:53.295 –> 00:30:54.435

but it’s actually a lot

 

658

00:30:54.435 –> 00:30:56.955

of the waters come is released when you freeze it.

 

659

00:30:56.955 –> 00:30:59.635

And so it actually makes it easier to dry, um,

 

660

00:30:59.635 –> 00:31:00.755

than fresh kelp sometimes.

 

661

00:31:02.075 –> 00:31:04.935

But so back to the rotary drum dryers, they don’t have the,

 

662

00:31:04.935 –> 00:31:06.295

they’re not the most energy efficient.

 

663

00:31:06.635 –> 00:31:10.615

Um, so they have high energy usage for us in Juno,

 

664

00:31:10.615 –> 00:31:13.215

we use all hydroelectric energy and it’s relatively cheap.

 

665

00:31:13.715 –> 00:31:15.335

Um, but for other towns

 

666

00:31:15.715 –> 00:31:18.535

and more rural areas in southeast Alaska, they use a lot

 

667

00:31:18.535 –> 00:31:19.535

of diesel generators.

 

668

00:31:20.155 –> 00:31:24.215

And so, um, a low energy efficient dryer wouldn’t work

 

669

00:31:24.275 –> 00:31:26.735

so well for a, a small kelp farmer.

 

670

00:31:27.425 –> 00:31:30.775

There is some amount of product loss as it dries, it spins,

 

671

00:31:30.955 –> 00:31:33.375

um, and there it’s not airtight.

 

672

00:31:33.395 –> 00:31:35.775

And so kelp will, um,

 

673

00:31:37.425 –> 00:31:39.925

be lost throughout the, uh, throughout the process.

 

674

00:31:40.545 –> 00:31:44.765

Um, but it probably between zero

 

675

00:31:44.905 –> 00:31:47.325

and 5%, um, product loss.

 

676

00:31:48.185 –> 00:31:49.925

Um, through our conversations with a lot

 

677

00:31:49.925 –> 00:31:51.765

of people about kelp dryers, we’ve heard a lot

 

678

00:31:51.765 –> 00:31:54.535

of people tell us that our,

 

679

00:31:55.045 –> 00:31:57.015

that rotary drum dryers are not a good option

 

680

00:31:57.015 –> 00:31:59.135

because it doesn’t make a quality product.

 

681

00:31:59.675 –> 00:32:01.495

Um, it’ll be b grade product,

 

682

00:32:02.405 –> 00:32:04.985

but we found that for our products, um,

 

683

00:32:05.215 –> 00:32:07.865

it’s really excellent for making flakes and kelp powder.

 

684

00:32:08.565 –> 00:32:13.355

Um, and I think our customers would agree

 

685

00:32:13.355 –> 00:32:14.795

that our, you know, our seasonings,

 

686

00:32:15.055 –> 00:32:16.515

you can buy all over the country.

 

687

00:32:17.175 –> 00:32:22.085

Um, and so for our purposes, the quality, um, is great.

 

688

00:32:23.055 –> 00:32:24.755

It is, like I said, a batch throughput,

 

689

00:32:24.755 –> 00:32:27.275

so it’s not a continuous feeding dryer you have to do

 

690

00:32:27.535 –> 00:32:28.955

by 400 pounds per day.

 

691

00:32:29.575 –> 00:32:31.905

Um, and so because of the labor

 

692

00:32:31.965 –> 00:32:34.105

and the energy efficiency, we’d say it’s,

 

693

00:32:34.385 –> 00:32:39.325

it’s high operating expenses purchase cheap

 

694

00:32:40.125 –> 00:32:43.845

compared to, um, most other dryers.

 

695

00:32:43.845 –> 00:32:46.485

So very low CapEx. Next slide, please.

 

696

00:32:47.825 –> 00:32:49.925

And so these are just pictures, um, wet kelp

 

697

00:32:50.555 –> 00:32:51.845

from a, in a four gallon bucket.

 

698

00:32:51.905 –> 00:32:54.445

So we’ll do 20 pounds of wet kelp

 

699

00:32:54.705 –> 00:32:56.885

of fronds per, um, in a bucket.

 

700

00:32:57.145 –> 00:32:58.205

And so we’ll put 10

 

701

00:32:58.205 –> 00:33:01.005

of those buckets in each dryer in the morning.

 

702

00:33:01.825 –> 00:33:06.045

Um, the middle picture is kelp in that dryer, um, and

 

703

00:33:06.045 –> 00:33:07.605

after it’s been dried, and so we’ll dry it

 

704

00:33:07.605 –> 00:33:10.525

for about 22 hours or so, 28 to 22 hours.

 

705

00:33:11.025 –> 00:33:12.925

And so they’re on all day and most of the night.

 

706

00:33:13.625 –> 00:33:18.035

And then the picture on the right is dried kelp, um,

 

707

00:33:18.045 –> 00:33:20.515

taken outta the dehydrator, put back in buckets

 

708

00:33:20.815 –> 00:33:25.495

and new dry buckets before it’s ground up and sifted.

 

709

00:33:25.495 –> 00:33:27.535

So we’ll put it through a hammer mill after it’s dried,

 

710

00:33:28.075 –> 00:33:30.695

and then we’ll sift it into different, uh, sizes

 

711

00:33:31.275 –> 00:33:32.695

for our different seasoning buns.

 

712

00:33:33.765 –> 00:33:37.735

Next slide, please. So we’ve been looking at different other

 

713

00:33:37.755 –> 00:33:41.605

drying options, um, for expanded drawing

 

714

00:33:42.645 –> 00:33:44.845

capacity and for, uh,

 

715

00:33:46.855 –> 00:33:49.945

good drying options might be for other people, um,

 

716

00:33:50.295 –> 00:33:51.905

kelp farmers, specifically in southeast Alaska,

 

717

00:33:51.965 –> 00:33:53.145

but also throughout the world.

 

718

00:33:54.485 –> 00:33:58.635

So the first step, a lot of people have had, um, success

 

719

00:33:58.635 –> 00:33:59.995

with mechanical dewatering.

 

720

00:34:00.455 –> 00:34:04.445

Um, and so will, um, a

 

721

00:34:05.085 –> 00:34:09.735

a screw press, you put continuous seed help into a screw

 

722

00:34:09.735 –> 00:34:10.775

press and it runs through.

 

723

00:34:11.355 –> 00:34:15.595

Um, and we’ve heard some people say that they’ve gotten a 30

 

724

00:34:15.595 –> 00:34:18.715

to 40% moisture reduction in just minutes, um,

 

725

00:34:19.045 –> 00:34:20.435

which could be a really great option.

 

726

00:34:20.435 –> 00:34:22.675

And we’re gonna look more into that soon.

 

727

00:34:23.235 –> 00:34:25.755

A plate and frame press uses the hydraulic pressure

 

728

00:34:25.755 –> 00:34:30.245

to squeeze out, but it’s a batch,

 

729

00:34:30.585 –> 00:34:34.945

it seems like a a lot of time to, oh,

 

730

00:34:35.635 –> 00:34:39.405

sorry if you, is this better audio now?

 

731

00:34:40.155 –> 00:34:42.845

Hopefully. Cool. Sorry about that.

 

732

00:34:43.385 –> 00:34:45.245

Um, and so the plate

 

733

00:34:45.245 –> 00:34:47.965

and frame press is a batch throughput, so it seems a, um,

 

734

00:34:48.155 –> 00:34:49.525

very labor intensive to load

 

735

00:34:50.305 –> 00:34:51.965

and might squeeze the kelp too hard,

 

736

00:34:52.105 –> 00:34:53.685

and then you might lead to quality issues.

 

737

00:34:53.705 –> 00:34:56.605

So, um, we might not be looking so far into that.

 

738

00:34:56.755 –> 00:35:01.605

Next slide, please. Um, thermal drying, the most common way

 

739

00:35:01.605 –> 00:35:03.605

to dry is solar drying.

 

740

00:35:04.075 –> 00:35:06.285

That is by far the most common method around the world.

 

741

00:35:06.665 –> 00:35:09.685

Um, super low cost, no energy,

 

742

00:35:10.425 –> 00:35:14.445

but it does have a high labor cost putting out, you know,

 

743

00:35:14.445 –> 00:35:16.405

could take hours to fill a greenhouse.

 

744

00:35:17.065 –> 00:35:19.445

Um, but it’s also reliant on sunshine and dry weather.

 

745

00:35:19.585 –> 00:35:22.605

So here in southeast Alaska, there’s very little sunshine,

 

746

00:35:23.065 –> 00:35:25.005

and I saw people from Scotland and,

 

747

00:35:25.905 –> 00:35:27.325

and in the northeast of the US

 

748

00:35:28.075 –> 00:35:29.765

it’s not always reliable sunshine.

 

749

00:35:29.985 –> 00:35:32.525

And so it’s not a great option.

 

750

00:35:32.525 –> 00:35:36.165

It’s also harder to make an FDA, um, approved, uh,

 

751

00:35:36.255 –> 00:35:37.645

trade, trade dryer.

 

752

00:35:37.945 –> 00:35:41.565

Um, these are what we used before we got the drum dryers.

 

753

00:35:41.565 –> 00:35:45.325

They’re very readily available, very cheap, so low CapEx,

 

754

00:35:45.785 –> 00:35:48.165

but a very tedious loading

 

755

00:35:48.265 –> 00:35:51.005

and unloading, um, with a very low capacity.

 

756

00:35:52.245 –> 00:35:54.765

A container dryer is essentially like a tray dryer,

 

757

00:35:55.025 –> 00:35:56.845

but with very large dehydrator.

 

758

00:35:56.845 –> 00:36:00.525

If it’s a whole shipping container, um, using heat pumps

 

759

00:36:00.705 –> 00:36:03.085

and fans, it could be very energy efficient,

 

760

00:36:03.425 –> 00:36:05.085

but again, it’s very labor intensive.

 

761

00:36:05.665 –> 00:36:07.445

Um, loading trays up with kelp,

 

762

00:36:07.795 –> 00:36:10.205

loading up the whole container and then removing them.

 

763

00:36:11.465 –> 00:36:16.165

Slide please. Um, so one

 

764

00:36:16.165 –> 00:36:17.365

of the biggest, uh,

 

765

00:36:19.305 –> 00:36:22.155

biggest dryer possibilities are conveyor dryers.

 

766

00:36:22.775 –> 00:36:26.235

Um, this is a picture of ocean ba, ocean balance,

 

767

00:36:26.345 –> 00:36:30.865

ocean’s balance new, uh, new dryer

 

768

00:36:30.865 –> 00:36:32.265

that everyone’s really excited about in Maine.

 

769

00:36:32.725 –> 00:36:36.905

Um, on the left is, uh, Alvin Blanche dryer from Scotland.

 

770

00:36:37.725 –> 00:36:39.825

Um, so these have the highest, some

 

771

00:36:39.825 –> 00:36:42.705

of the highest capital expenses as far as upfront costs,

 

772

00:36:43.405 –> 00:36:45.425

but could be the most energy intensive

 

773

00:36:46.365 –> 00:36:49.145

and the most, the most minimal labor costs

 

774

00:36:49.175 –> 00:36:53.785

with one person able to operate, um, operate the dryer

 

775

00:36:54.165 –> 00:36:56.025

and do 20,000 pounds in a day.

 

776

00:36:57.025 –> 00:37:01.865

And so there’s a lot of potential here for, um, massive,

 

777

00:37:02.805 –> 00:37:04.425

uh, kelp processing,

 

778

00:37:04.525 –> 00:37:07.225

but it’s a little bit more difficult for small scale

 

779

00:37:08.015 –> 00:37:10.985

kelp farmers to, to both purchase

 

780

00:37:11.005 –> 00:37:12.585

and fit one of these dryers.

 

781

00:37:13.205 –> 00:37:14.505

And then I’ll just run

 

782

00:37:14.505 –> 00:37:16.985

through these other more obscure options.

 

783

00:37:16.995 –> 00:37:19.425

Maybe there’s infrared dryers, um,

 

784

00:37:20.395 –> 00:37:21.825

which found success in labs,

 

785

00:37:22.005 –> 00:37:26.385

but seems to be very energy intensive and very inefficient.

 

786

00:37:26.565 –> 00:37:29.355

Um, for processing spray dryers.

 

787

00:37:29.485 –> 00:37:30.715

We’ve heard of some people using

 

788

00:37:30.765 –> 00:37:35.035

where you have a very liquidy, um, puree and you spray it

 

789

00:37:35.035 –> 00:37:37.155

and it makes a really fine kelp powder.

 

790

00:37:37.895 –> 00:37:39.835

Um, but they’re very expensive.

 

791

00:37:41.025 –> 00:37:42.405

Um, and then drum

 

792

00:37:42.405 –> 00:37:44.805

and roll dryers is another, you puree kelp,

 

793

00:37:44.865 –> 00:37:47.765

and then it rolls on these heated drums, um,

 

794

00:37:49.175 –> 00:37:52.595

and you get kind of a powdery, um, cake.

 

795

00:37:53.335 –> 00:37:55.755

And then freeze dryers are also kind

 

796

00:37:55.755 –> 00:37:59.445

of low throughput batch, very low capacity, um,

 

797

00:37:59.445 –> 00:38:00.725

and very energy intensive.

 

798

00:38:01.105 –> 00:38:03.325

Um, and so with, they have a, a higher,

 

799

00:38:03.605 –> 00:38:06.835

a very high opex next slide.

 

800

00:38:07.295 –> 00:38:10.915

Um, so for us, our next steps we’re going to, um,

 

801

00:38:12.495 –> 00:38:15.105

hopefully acquiring and testing different dryers.

 

802

00:38:15.105 –> 00:38:16.825

We’re gonna look at looking, uh,

 

803

00:38:16.835 –> 00:38:20.665

gonna look at mechanical dewatering step prior to drying,

 

804

00:38:20.885 –> 00:38:23.745

um, to see if that will decrease energy usage.

 

805

00:38:24.485 –> 00:38:27.145

Um, we’re gonna maybe look at ways

 

806

00:38:27.145 –> 00:38:29.185

to modify our rotary drum dryers that we already have

 

807

00:38:29.205 –> 00:38:30.545

to make them more efficient

 

808

00:38:31.205 –> 00:38:35.205

and do different tests to see, uh, if there’s needed

 

809

00:38:35.865 –> 00:38:37.045

for shelf stable

 

810

00:38:37.105 –> 00:38:41.685

or shipping stable status to be able to ship, um, you know,

 

811

00:38:41.685 –> 00:38:42.925

through air cargo is ship

 

812

00:38:42.925 –> 00:38:44.965

around the country without refrigeration,

 

813

00:38:45.385 –> 00:38:47.365

but using the minimum energy to get there.

 

814

00:38:48.115 –> 00:38:49.695

Um, yeah, thank you so much.

 

815

00:38:50.035 –> 00:38:51.295

And if yeah, feel free to reach out

 

816

00:38:51.295 –> 00:38:52.295

with questions afterwards.

 

817

00:38:52.405 –> 00:38:53.815

Also, if we don’t get to any of them,

 

818

00:38:53.815 –> 00:38:54.935

sorry for running a bit long.

 

819

00:38:56.405 –> 00:38:57.785

Oh, good. You had a lot to cover.

 

820

00:38:58.045 –> 00:39:00.585

Um, let’s do one quick question, uh,

 

821

00:39:00.585 –> 00:39:02.305

that was asked twice actually, which is,

 

822

00:39:02.445 –> 00:39:03.465

or almost three times.

 

823

00:39:03.925 –> 00:39:07.145

Um, how do you reduce the size of your, of the kelp

 

824

00:39:07.145 –> 00:39:08.545

before you put it into the dryer?

 

825

00:39:09.625 –> 00:39:10.725

So when we, And,

 

826

00:39:10.725 –> 00:39:12.725

and does that differ per the per species?

 

827

00:39:13.525 –> 00:39:16.015

Species? Right. So when we get a harvest in, um,

 

828

00:39:17.025 –> 00:39:20.015

we’ll lay the harvest out on a really big processing table,

 

829

00:39:20.635 –> 00:39:24.535

um, that’s about 20 feet, 20 by five, 20 by 10 or so.

 

830

00:39:25.115 –> 00:39:27.655

Um, and we’ll kind

 

831

00:39:27.655 –> 00:39:30.095

of just chop it up a little bit, but not much.

 

832

00:39:30.515 –> 00:39:34.095

Um, and so we, we’ll have frons

 

833

00:39:34.095 –> 00:39:37.335

that are maybe five feet long being stuffed into buckets.

 

834

00:39:37.955 –> 00:39:42.665

Um, and as it dries, we’ll actually

 

835

00:39:43.665 –> 00:39:45.035

sometimes have to go in there

 

836

00:39:45.035 –> 00:39:46.275

and cut it up throughout the day.

 

837

00:39:46.455 –> 00:39:48.235

Um, scrape the dehydrators to make sure there’s,

 

838

00:39:48.235 –> 00:39:50.155

is not sticking too much and, um,

 

839

00:39:51.685 –> 00:39:53.745

cut the frons up once it’s actually dried with,

 

840

00:39:54.055 –> 00:39:55.345

with kitchen shears.

 

841

00:39:55.845 –> 00:39:58.705

Um, but we don’t really do a big cutting step prior

 

842

00:39:58.705 –> 00:40:00.445

to drying, but it is something

 

843

00:40:00.445 –> 00:40:02.005

that we will, we’re gonna look into.

 

844

00:40:03.955 –> 00:40:05.005

Awesome. Thank you.

 

845

00:40:05.465 –> 00:40:06.685

If anyone else has questions

 

846

00:40:06.825 –> 00:40:08.365

for barnacle about their processes,

 

847

00:40:08.365 –> 00:40:10.645

you can still put it in the chat and we will, um,

 

848

00:40:10.905 –> 00:40:13.285

get you those answers after this webinar.

 

849

00:40:14.995 –> 00:40:16.185

Thank you so much, Akiva.

 

850

00:40:16.635 –> 00:40:21.145

Thank you. All right.

 

851

00:40:21.855 –> 00:40:25.665

Last up we have Matthew Perkins from Macro Oceans.

 

852

00:40:27.365 –> 00:40:29.745

Hey everyone, uh, good to be here.

 

853

00:40:29.805 –> 00:40:31.825

And I see there are people from all over the world.

 

854

00:40:31.825 –> 00:40:33.345

So thank you, uh, for joining

 

855

00:40:33.405 –> 00:40:35.185

and thanks to Greenway for, for hosting.

 

856

00:40:35.525 –> 00:40:39.055

Uh, next slide, right.

 

857

00:40:39.075 –> 00:40:40.815

So for those of you who don’t know us,

 

858

00:40:41.035 –> 00:40:44.615

we are a seaweed bioprocessing company based in California.

 

859

00:40:45.195 –> 00:40:49.095

Um, our primary focus is on taking seaweed

 

860

00:40:49.095 –> 00:40:52.135

and transforming it into a whole range of, uh,

 

861

00:40:52.195 –> 00:40:56.455

low carbon chemicals that can go into everything from, uh,

 

862

00:40:56.775 –> 00:40:59.615

cosmetics to, uh, materials

 

863

00:40:59.915 –> 00:41:02.055

and, uh, other industrial applications.

 

864

00:41:02.075 –> 00:41:04.855

So we’re, we’re not really doing anything food focused.

 

865

00:41:05.595 –> 00:41:06.935

Um, next slide, please.

 

866

00:41:08.595 –> 00:41:11.335

Uh, our goal is to, uh, process the seaweed

 

867

00:41:11.335 –> 00:41:15.535

and use a hundred percent of the, uh, of the biomass.

 

868

00:41:15.535 –> 00:41:17.895

So at the moment we’re focused on sugar kelp,

 

869

00:41:18.035 –> 00:41:19.975

and we’ve got three product lines.

 

870

00:41:20.235 –> 00:41:22.615

One, uh, is around cosmetics.

 

871

00:41:22.635 –> 00:41:26.535

We provide bioactive ingredients to brands to allow them to,

 

872

00:41:26.995 –> 00:41:29.775

uh, have really powerful hydrating, uh,

 

873

00:41:29.905 –> 00:41:32.655

clean beauty products for things like, uh,

 

874

00:41:32.715 –> 00:41:34.085

in skincare and in haircare.

 

875

00:41:34.385 –> 00:41:37.005

Uh, we’re making an alginate, a sodium alginate product

 

876

00:41:37.185 –> 00:41:41.405

for food and also for the, uh, materials markets,

 

877

00:41:41.465 –> 00:41:43.325

things like info plastics.

 

878

00:41:43.905 –> 00:41:48.045

And we’re also, uh, have a kelp pulp, which we’ve been, uh,

 

879

00:41:48.045 –> 00:41:50.365

working with companies in the packaging space on.

 

880

00:41:51.855 –> 00:41:53.825

Next slide, please. All right.

 

881

00:41:53.825 –> 00:41:56.345

So, uh, jumping into kind of what the problem was

 

882

00:41:56.345 –> 00:41:59.865

that we were trying to solve, uh, I think I don’t have to go

 

883

00:41:59.865 –> 00:42:02.625

through a lot of this because it’s been well explained by,

 

884

00:42:03.005 –> 00:42:07.065

um, by, uh, a key bank Casey essentially drying, uh,

 

885

00:42:07.445 –> 00:42:09.825

and freezing and insiling

 

886

00:42:09.825 –> 00:42:13.385

or some form of insiling are all kind of impractical,

 

887

00:42:13.645 –> 00:42:14.865

uh, for cold climates.

 

888

00:42:14.895 –> 00:42:17.705

They’re pretty expensive and energy intensive

 

889

00:42:18.325 –> 00:42:20.425

and, uh, they have, you know,

 

890

00:42:20.425 –> 00:42:23.105

limited downstream applications, by which I mean, you know,

 

891

00:42:23.165 –> 00:42:25.505

not that many people know what to do with frozen kelp.

 

892

00:42:25.885 –> 00:42:28.905

Um, and in addition, in our process, we wanted

 

893

00:42:29.205 –> 00:42:31.145

to process the kelp wet.

 

894

00:42:31.405 –> 00:42:32.905

Uh, we didn’t wanna dry it.

 

895

00:42:33.005 –> 00:42:35.705

Uh, so why would we wanna pay all that money

 

896

00:42:35.705 –> 00:42:37.665

to get a dried product and then add water

 

897

00:42:37.665 –> 00:42:38.865

back to, to run our process?

 

898

00:42:39.085 –> 00:42:41.065

So, uh, we wanted to work with wet kelp,

 

899

00:42:41.805 –> 00:42:43.265

so we were like, what can we do?

 

900

00:42:43.265 –> 00:42:45.305

What, what are the options here? Next slide, please.

 

901

00:42:46.405 –> 00:42:51.335

So we, uh, came up with a brief, if you like,

 

902

00:42:51.355 –> 00:42:53.055

of what our solution needed to do.

 

903

00:42:53.195 –> 00:42:55.935

So we wanted to have anything that was, uh,

 

904

00:42:55.935 –> 00:42:56.935

significantly cheaper

 

905

00:42:57.435 –> 00:43:01.095

and, uh, more cost effective than freezing drying needed

 

906

00:43:01.095 –> 00:43:05.135

to be energy, uh, inten un intensive

 

907

00:43:05.155 –> 00:43:06.935

or low energy essentially.

 

908

00:43:07.435 –> 00:43:08.535

Um, we wanted to,

 

909

00:43:08.555 –> 00:43:11.375

to be effective at ambient temperatures for up to 12 months.

 

910

00:43:11.395 –> 00:43:13.975

Now what I mean by that, uh, we wanted to,

 

911

00:43:14.065 –> 00:43:16.135

we’re mostly focused on carbohydrates

 

912

00:43:16.315 –> 00:43:19.535

and getting the carbohydrates out, um, efficiently.

 

913

00:43:19.995 –> 00:43:21.055

And we wanted to make sure

 

914

00:43:21.055 –> 00:43:23.815

that if we essentially stole discount for 12 months,

 

915

00:43:23.835 –> 00:43:27.295

we could still run it in our bio-refinery and not, uh,

 

916

00:43:27.355 –> 00:43:28.375

and make good products.

 

917

00:43:28.435 –> 00:43:30.415

So that’s what we meant by effective

 

918

00:43:30.475 –> 00:43:31.975

and ambient temperature is important.

 

919

00:43:32.075 –> 00:43:35.215

We, we wanted to be able to sit wherever you wanted

 

920

00:43:35.215 –> 00:43:37.295

to put it, and it would just be shelf stable.

 

921

00:43:37.795 –> 00:43:41.775

Uh, it needed to be food safe and non-toxic, obviously.

 

922

00:43:41.995 –> 00:43:44.455

Uh, ’cause you know, that’s part of our mission

 

923

00:43:44.995 –> 00:43:48.215

and we wanted to be compatible with our downstream process.

 

924

00:43:48.515 –> 00:43:51.415

Uh, I say right up front that we built this for ourself, uh,

 

925

00:43:51.595 –> 00:43:52.935

not necessarily thinking

 

926

00:43:52.965 –> 00:43:54.775

that other people would be that excited about it.

 

927

00:43:54.995 –> 00:43:58.175

Uh, uh, that turned out to be something we were wrong about.

 

928

00:43:58.235 –> 00:44:01.775

But anyway, uh, we, we definitely, uh, hadn’t intended this

 

929

00:44:01.775 –> 00:44:04.855

to work in all applications, but for our application.

 

930

00:44:05.525 –> 00:44:09.895

Next slide, please. So, in 22, uh, we went out

 

931

00:44:09.955 –> 00:44:14.175

and we really kind of think of us as cooks in the kitchen.

 

932

00:44:14.435 –> 00:44:16.335

We mixed up a whole bunch of different,

 

933

00:44:16.355 –> 00:44:17.495

uh, reagent cocktails.

 

934

00:44:17.715 –> 00:44:20.535

Uh, we ground up the seaweed, we, uh, dosed them

 

935

00:44:21.035 –> 00:44:24.695

and we stuck them in these bottles, uh, which, you know,

 

936

00:44:24.965 –> 00:44:28.535

were just left there for 12 months, essentially just,

 

937

00:44:28.595 –> 00:44:30.015

you know, stored in, in the room.

 

938

00:44:30.555 –> 00:44:32.605

And, uh, we took a sample every month

 

939

00:44:32.825 –> 00:44:37.045

and we looked at what was happening to the kelp in side.

 

940

00:44:37.065 –> 00:44:39.005

We also did some subjective monitoring.

 

941

00:44:39.005 –> 00:44:41.045

You know, clearly some of them you could tell they just

 

942

00:44:41.045 –> 00:44:42.165

like were rotten.

 

943

00:44:42.165 –> 00:44:43.605

After a few months, we threw those out.

 

944

00:44:43.825 –> 00:44:46.085

Um, and so we kind of, uh, whittled that down

 

945

00:44:46.465 –> 00:44:48.045

to the key recipes, uh,

 

946

00:44:48.105 –> 00:44:50.565

and tried to identify the key parameters

 

947

00:44:50.625 –> 00:44:52.965

and, uh, get a recipe, which was gonna work.

 

948

00:44:54.375 –> 00:44:58.465

Next slide. So, uh, in 20,

 

949

00:44:58.965 –> 00:45:00.385

at the end of 22, um,

 

950

00:45:00.685 –> 00:45:02.385

we started a conversation with GreenWave.

 

951

00:45:02.485 –> 00:45:04.025

And GreenWave said, you know,

 

952

00:45:04.075 –> 00:45:06.105

we’re actually pretty interested in, uh,

 

953

00:45:06.495 –> 00:45:07.785

what happens post harvest.

 

954

00:45:07.885 –> 00:45:09.785

We told ’em a little bit about the experiment.

 

955

00:45:09.785 –> 00:45:11.065

We’d been, we’d been running

 

956

00:45:11.445 –> 00:45:14.745

and they said, Hey, we, we wanna run a scaled up trial.

 

957

00:45:15.045 –> 00:45:17.545

And so we thought, well, we wanna scale it up anyway.

 

958

00:45:17.545 –> 00:45:19.065

We don’t know that much about, you know,

 

959

00:45:19.245 –> 00:45:21.945

how the kelp is handled, uh, post harvest.

 

960

00:45:22.115 –> 00:45:25.145

We’ve basically just been working with, um, whole blade kelp

 

961

00:45:25.325 –> 00:45:27.065

and we hadn’t solved that problem yet.

 

962

00:45:27.205 –> 00:45:29.945

So we said, sure. And so this is Toby.

 

963

00:45:29.945 –> 00:45:31.265

Some of you will know him, uh,

 

964

00:45:31.265 –> 00:45:33.185

from all his work on the hatchery.

 

965

00:45:33.535 –> 00:45:36.505

Toby, uh, then cooked up a plan to figure out how

 

966

00:45:36.505 –> 00:45:39.185

to essentially shred the kelp into chunks

 

967

00:45:39.445 –> 00:45:42.785

and to, uh, allow us to then, uh, dose,

 

968

00:45:42.895 –> 00:45:45.425

dose them up in 55 gallon barrels

 

969

00:45:45.805 –> 00:45:48.545

and, uh, run a larger scale trial.

 

970

00:45:48.805 –> 00:45:50.465

Um, and so that’s a picture of Toby.

 

971

00:45:50.565 –> 00:45:53.665

He is, uh, feeding kelp into, uh, the Vincent shredder.

 

972

00:45:53.665 –> 00:45:55.505

Uh, there we can give more details on

 

973

00:45:55.505 –> 00:45:56.665

exactly what that equipment is.

 

974

00:45:57.005 –> 00:45:59.145

Uh, and definitely Toby will know more about,

 

975

00:45:59.365 –> 00:46:00.465

uh, the drawbacks of that.

 

976

00:46:00.545 –> 00:46:03.905

I understand it wasn’t necessarily the safest, uh, machine,

 

977

00:46:04.205 –> 00:46:06.825

uh, but Sam, Sam and Toby can elaborate on that.

 

978

00:46:07.205 –> 00:46:10.385

Um, but essentially we, we, uh, basically shredded the kelp,

 

979

00:46:10.385 –> 00:46:13.665

threw it in a 55 gallon barrel, mixed our reagents in.

 

980

00:46:13.725 –> 00:46:16.265

Uh, we used a concrete mixer, which is pretty low tech.

 

981

00:46:16.365 –> 00:46:17.785

Uh, we bought it Home Depot

 

982

00:46:17.845 –> 00:46:19.905

or somewhere equivalent, uh, for a few minutes.

 

983

00:46:20.125 –> 00:46:24.385

Um, put the lid on, and we have, that was in May,

 

984

00:46:24.485 –> 00:46:27.945

and we’ve been, uh, storing them, uh, in our warehouse

 

985

00:46:28.005 –> 00:46:30.865

and we’ll plan on keeping ’em for 12 months, um,

 

986

00:46:31.165 –> 00:46:33.385

and taking, taking a sample every, every month

 

987

00:46:33.405 –> 00:46:34.905

for composition analysis.

 

988

00:46:36.555 –> 00:46:39.945

Next slide. So I don’t really have, uh,

 

989

00:46:40.125 –> 00:46:41.425

the full data work up yet.

 

990

00:46:41.675 –> 00:46:42.865

We’re still working on that,

 

991

00:46:42.965 –> 00:46:46.185

but what I can tell you, uh, is that, uh, it looks

 

992

00:46:46.245 –> 00:46:48.865

and it smells and it even tastes pretty good.

 

993

00:46:49.045 –> 00:46:52.305

Um, don’t try this at home, but yes, we have pulled some out

 

994

00:46:52.365 –> 00:46:55.025

and we have, uh, um, eaten it.

 

995

00:46:55.125 –> 00:46:57.945

And I would say all, all is out all as well.

 

996

00:46:57.945 –> 00:47:00.225

That ends, well, I’m still standing here, so, um,

 

997

00:47:00.455 –> 00:47:02.825

it’s clearly to not, uh, totally poisonous.

 

998

00:47:03.165 –> 00:47:05.185

Um, but in all seriousness,

 

999

00:47:05.185 –> 00:47:07.425

it’s been sitting in our warehouse here in Sacramento,

 

1000

00:47:07.485 –> 00:47:10.665

and we’ve had temperatures over a hundred, uh, this summer,

 

1001

00:47:10.765 –> 00:47:12.305

and it’s been just fine.

 

1002

00:47:12.525 –> 00:47:14.425

Um, so that’s pretty cool.

 

1003

00:47:14.525 –> 00:47:16.705

And now we’re running a bunch of, uh,

 

1004

00:47:16.895 –> 00:47:19.305

compositional analysis, looking at sugars,

 

1005

00:47:19.305 –> 00:47:21.225

looking at the proteins, um,

 

1006

00:47:21.405 –> 00:47:24.105

and trying to understand exactly what’s happening,

 

1007

00:47:24.365 –> 00:47:25.385

um, in each bowel.

 

1008

00:47:26.495 –> 00:47:30.775

Next slide. So, uh, next year, uh,

 

1009

00:47:30.805 –> 00:47:34.055

GreenWave wanted to take this out to the real world.

 

1010

00:47:34.195 –> 00:47:35.575

Um, and so, uh,

 

1011

00:47:35.605 –> 00:47:38.775

they have spearheaded a joint innovation project, uh,

 

1012

00:47:38.795 –> 00:47:42.135

in Kodiak, funded by, um, the Build Back Better Grant.

 

1013

00:47:42.355 –> 00:47:44.175

And, uh, this is an RD project.

 

1014

00:47:44.205 –> 00:47:47.735

There’s bunch of different partners in it, including, um,

 

1015

00:47:48.085 –> 00:47:52.175

Cali and, uh, the K-S-M-S-C in Kodiak,

 

1016

00:47:52.175 –> 00:47:53.495

which is the Marine Science Center.

 

1017

00:47:53.875 –> 00:47:55.695

Um, and I’m gonna forget all the PAs, uh,

 

1018

00:47:55.695 –> 00:47:56.775

Alaska Ocean Farms.

 

1019

00:47:57.115 –> 00:47:59.455

Um, and we’re essentially providing the reagents.

 

1020

00:47:59.455 –> 00:48:02.055

We’re gonna buy the seaweed, um, and we’re gonna try

 

1021

00:48:02.055 –> 00:48:05.295

and, uh, do a log demonstration of this technique.

 

1022

00:48:05.715 –> 00:48:09.415

Um, and, uh, yeah, we have some ideas about how to improve

 

1023

00:48:09.415 –> 00:48:12.655

that processing line, uh, because it was extremely manual

 

1024

00:48:12.755 –> 00:48:13.975

and we’re gonna automate

 

1025

00:48:13.995 –> 00:48:17.095

or at least, uh, make the workflow more efficient, uh,

 

1026

00:48:17.195 –> 00:48:18.255

for the coming season.

 

1027

00:48:18.915 –> 00:48:22.855

Um, and then, you know, we’ve had quite a bit of interest

 

1028

00:48:23.795 –> 00:48:26.455

in terms of, uh, people using this technique.

 

1029

00:48:26.635 –> 00:48:29.535

Uh, and so, you know, we’ve been, uh, thinking about

 

1030

00:48:29.875 –> 00:48:32.935

how do we test this with different downstream applications,

 

1031

00:48:33.075 –> 00:48:35.735

uh, for example, people making biosimilars, uh, people

 

1032

00:48:35.755 –> 00:48:39.575

who want to dry the kelp, uh, and make powdered product.

 

1033

00:48:39.955 –> 00:48:42.615

Um, you know, what does it work in those situations?

 

1034

00:48:42.875 –> 00:48:43.895

Do we get good quality?

 

1035

00:48:44.515 –> 00:48:47.335

Um, and so you, just to be clear, this is still in the r

 

1036

00:48:47.335 –> 00:48:50.135

and d stage, um, but we’re, uh, working on how

 

1037

00:48:50.565 –> 00:48:51.855

that is gonna get rolled out.

 

1038

00:48:51.915 –> 00:48:55.875

In addition, we’re going to be, uh, thinking about

 

1039

00:48:55.975 –> 00:48:58.435

how we get this technology into the hands of farmers.

 

1040

00:48:58.695 –> 00:49:02.715

Um, the, the whole point of it is to provide a really cheap

 

1041

00:49:02.975 –> 00:49:05.955

and effective option for storing kelp so

 

1042

00:49:05.955 –> 00:49:07.515

that farmers can stabilize it

 

1043

00:49:07.515 –> 00:49:10.715

and then sell it to other folks without having access

 

1044

00:49:10.715 –> 00:49:13.755

to freezing or drying, which can be quite expensive.

 

1045

00:49:14.215 –> 00:49:16.915

Um, so that is in discussion with GreenWave.

 

1046

00:49:16.935 –> 00:49:19.435

Uh, but, so keep your eyes, uh, uh,

 

1047

00:49:19.865 –> 00:49:21.715

keep your eyes on it for next steps.

 

1048

00:49:23.175 –> 00:49:24.675

Uh, and I think that’s it.

 

1049

00:49:30.515 –> 00:49:31.965

Awesome. Thank you, Matthew.

 

1050

00:49:33.065 –> 00:49:35.645

Uh, let’s see what questions we’ve got here.

 

1051

00:49:36.105 –> 00:49:40.205

Um, so here’s a question about the chopping.

 

1052

00:49:40.705 –> 00:49:44.205

Um, I don’t know if Toby is able to unmute

 

1053

00:49:44.705 –> 00:49:48.675

and share Toby, if you are able to do

 

1054

00:49:48.675 –> 00:49:50.765

that, would you please?

 

1055

00:49:53.135 –> 00:49:54.995

He might be on a boat, sometimes. He’s on a boat.

 

1056

00:49:56.385 –> 00:49:57.835

Yeah. Sorry, I just couldn’t get my finger

 

1057

00:49:57.835 –> 00:49:58.875

on the unmute button.

 

1058

00:50:00.105 –> 00:50:01.675

Cool. So the question is, have you,

 

1059

00:50:01.675 –> 00:50:04.035

have we tried a bowl cutter for chopping?

 

1060

00:50:04.215 –> 00:50:06.235

And if so, how does it compare with the Vincent?

 

1061

00:50:06.375 –> 00:50:08.635

Or perhaps more generally, could you speak to the,

 

1062

00:50:08.775 –> 00:50:10.795

the chopping equipment that we’ve tried?

 

1063

00:50:12.265 –> 00:50:14.995

Yeah, definitely. So, um, we, you know, we’ve looked at,

 

1064

00:50:15.015 –> 00:50:17.395

we, we’ve looked with partners at a lot of different, uh,

 

1065

00:50:17.505 –> 00:50:19.915

size reduction machines from the food industry.

 

1066

00:50:20.265 –> 00:50:24.675

Generally speaking. Um, slicing, uh, devices, um,

 

1067

00:50:25.025 –> 00:50:28.365

have a hard time when you start scaling up to throughput.

 

1068

00:50:28.425 –> 00:50:31.005

Uh, the, the cutting blades tend to delve, uh,

 

1069

00:50:31.245 –> 00:50:32.805

re relatively quickly, um,

 

1070

00:50:32.945 –> 00:50:36.565

and moving large amounts of material through them, um, can,

 

1071

00:50:36.665 –> 00:50:37.925

can be hard operationally.

 

1072

00:50:38.025 –> 00:50:39.525

So a lot of clogging and a lot of having

 

1073

00:50:39.525 –> 00:50:41.245

to take the line apart and, and start over.

 

1074

00:50:41.585 –> 00:50:42.845

Um, so we really started from a,

 

1075

00:50:42.965 –> 00:50:45.965

a lowest common denominator framework, experimenting

 

1076

00:50:46.045 –> 00:50:48.485

with things as rudimentary as garbage disposals to try

 

1077

00:50:48.485 –> 00:50:51.965

and understand just the material characteristics of, of kelp

 

1078

00:50:51.965 –> 00:50:53.565

as we’re trying to chop it up, um,

 

1079

00:50:53.625 –> 00:50:55.845

and are really settling in on, on machines

 

1080

00:50:55.845 –> 00:50:57.365

that don’t have sharp edges that need

 

1081

00:50:57.365 –> 00:50:58.445

to be sharpened and maintained.

 

1082

00:51:02.725 –> 00:51:05.265

Thanks, Toby. Um, Matthew,

 

1083

00:51:05.265 –> 00:51:07.665

Allison asks if you can share anything around

 

1084

00:51:08.015 –> 00:51:10.745

what the reagent is or perhaps is not.

 

1085

00:51:11.005 –> 00:51:13.305

And secondarily, have you had any question,

 

1086

00:51:13.565 –> 00:51:15.705

or, sorry, any problems with, uh, mold?

 

1087

00:51:17.245 –> 00:51:19.625

Uh, yeah, so we haven’t seen any mold.

 

1088

00:51:19.625 –> 00:51:22.105

That’s obviously a great indicator of microbial growth.

 

1089

00:51:22.485 –> 00:51:26.385

Um, we, uh, yeah, so it, it all, like I said, it looks, uh,

 

1090

00:51:26.685 –> 00:51:28.105

it smells, tastes fine.

 

1091

00:51:28.565 –> 00:51:31.265

Um, and yeah, the reagents are food safe,

 

1092

00:51:31.445 –> 00:51:34.985

and so they’re designed to be able to use them, you know,

 

1093

00:51:34.985 –> 00:51:36.625

in a relatively, uh, in,

 

1094

00:51:36.645 –> 00:51:38.225

in variety of different applications.

 

1095

00:51:38.405 –> 00:51:41.385

Um, and, uh, yeah, so that’s,

 

1096

00:51:42.225 –> 00:51:43.585

I guess what I could say about that.

 

1097

00:51:46.085 –> 00:51:47.115

Great. Thank you.

 

1098

00:51:47.975 –> 00:51:52.635

And Philip is wondering, have you experimented with, um,

 

1099

00:51:53.095 –> 00:51:55.915

you know, combining your stabilization reagents

 

1100

00:51:55.915 –> 00:51:57.555

with fermentation or anything to try

 

1101

00:51:57.555 –> 00:51:59.275

to augment desired compounds?

 

1102

00:52:00.915 –> 00:52:02.215

Uh, we haven’t done any of that.

 

1103

00:52:02.435 –> 00:52:05.855

Uh, in general, you know, we’re trying to, um,

 

1104

00:52:06.045 –> 00:52:07.095

extract sugars

 

1105

00:52:07.195 –> 00:52:09.055

and so, you know, when you’re,

 

1106

00:52:09.275 –> 00:52:10.855

if you stop fermenting the seaweed,

 

1107

00:52:10.855 –> 00:52:13.775

typically the microbes are gonna consume the

 

1108

00:52:13.775 –> 00:52:15.055

sugars and turn them into other things.

 

1109

00:52:15.155 –> 00:52:16.975

Um, so we don’t really want to do that.

 

1110

00:52:17.075 –> 00:52:18.815

Uh, people, you know, have done this.

 

1111

00:52:18.955 –> 00:52:21.455

Um, for example, I know that, uh,

 

1112

00:52:21.455 –> 00:52:24.495

the ocean rainforest approach, uh, is, you know,

 

1113

00:52:24.495 –> 00:52:26.655

adding some different innoculants in there

 

1114

00:52:26.655 –> 00:52:27.695

and, and fermenting.

 

1115

00:52:27.715 –> 00:52:29.935

So different applications require different things.

 

1116

00:52:29.995 –> 00:52:32.535

So it very specific to kind of what you wanna do

 

1117

00:52:32.535 –> 00:52:33.695

with it is what I would say.

 

1118

00:52:36.695 –> 00:52:40.165

Great. Thank you. And Jamie is wondering if you,

 

1119

00:52:40.385 –> 00:52:43.085

if your process requires desalination before treatment?

 

1120

00:52:45.155 –> 00:52:46.655

Uh, no, it doesn’t.

 

1121

00:52:46.835 –> 00:52:51.335

Uh, I think in general, farmers are rinsing the seaweed,

 

1122

00:52:51.715 –> 00:52:54.735

you know, to kind of reduce the number of little critters

 

1123

00:52:54.735 –> 00:52:57.695

that might be, uh, on, on the material, um,

 

1124

00:52:58.475 –> 00:52:59.615

before they put it in.

 

1125

00:52:59.615 –> 00:53:01.335

But it’s not required from our side.

 

1126

00:53:01.475 –> 00:53:03.895

Um, but yeah, in general, I think that’s

 

1127

00:53:03.895 –> 00:53:04.895

what people have been doing.

 

1128

00:53:06.195 –> 00:53:08.135

Yes, and I’ll share that for the trials

 

1129

00:53:08.165 –> 00:53:09.375

that we did last year.

 

1130

00:53:09.385 –> 00:53:11.975

There was no rinsing, we just pulled it out of the water

 

1131

00:53:12.075 –> 00:53:14.715

and put it in barrels and then into the machine.

 

1132

00:53:19.615 –> 00:53:22.115

Any other questions for Matthew? I,

 

1133

00:53:27.935 –> 00:53:31.225

okay, in that case, we will move to wrap up.

 

1134

00:53:33.925 –> 00:53:36.625

Um, thank you so much for joining.

 

1135

00:53:36.925 –> 00:53:39.465

We will reach out with the slides and the recording.

 

1136

00:53:39.565 –> 00:53:41.665

And for those of you who have questions about drying,

 

1137

00:53:41.665 –> 00:53:43.585

we will, we will get you answers to those questions.

 

1138

00:53:44.365 –> 00:53:48.785

Um, wanted to share the upcoming Farmer Forum series.

 

1139

00:53:49.285 –> 00:53:51.345

We still have a few more, uh, this year.

 

1140

00:53:51.605 –> 00:53:54.985

And then, um, we, in 2024,

 

1141

00:53:55.125 –> 00:53:59.585

we are moving into, uh, very farming focused topics.

 

1142

00:53:59.965 –> 00:54:02.865

The last one this year is on December 14th,

 

1143

00:54:02.865 –> 00:54:04.785

and it’s actually about producer cooperatives

 

1144

00:54:05.205 –> 00:54:08.425

and how they can help farmers increase sales, reduce costs,

 

1145

00:54:08.485 –> 00:54:09.865

and gain power in the value chain.

 

1146

00:54:09.885 –> 00:54:11.145

So we hope to see you at that one,

 

1147

00:54:11.485 –> 00:54:12.985

if not in, in the new year.

 

1148

00:54:14.245 –> 00:54:17.345

And, um, we are also launching a new series this year

 

1149

00:54:17.885 –> 00:54:19.185

called Seed to Sale.

 

1150

00:54:19.285 –> 00:54:22.505

And this is a theory that is targeted at non-farming folks,

 

1151

00:54:22.505 –> 00:54:24.905

people who are interested in getting involved in the seaweed

 

1152

00:54:25.105 –> 00:54:27.865

industry, but think that they might be, uh, processors

 

1153

00:54:27.885 –> 00:54:31.105

or buyers or, uh, you know, some variation thereof.

 

1154

00:54:31.105 –> 00:54:33.465

We’ve obviously just heard of from three folks today

 

1155

00:54:33.525 –> 00:54:34.825

who do not do farming themselves

 

1156

00:54:34.845 –> 00:54:37.385

and yet are integral to getting kelp to market.

 

1157

00:54:37.925 –> 00:54:40.185

So, uh, we hope that you’ll join us at Sea to sale if

 

1158

00:54:40.185 –> 00:54:42.185

that fits, uh, your description

 

1159

00:54:43.445 –> 00:54:46.025

and, um, yeah, you can register using

 

1160

00:54:46.025 –> 00:54:47.585

that QR code in the bottom right.

 

1161

00:54:48.635 –> 00:54:51.265

Thank you so much again, and we hope to see you all soon.

 

1162

00:54:51.315 –> 00:54:52.145

Thank you to our speakers.