Preserving Quality: Post Harvest Handling and Storage | Farmer Forum

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Hi everyone. Uh, welcome to today’s Farmer Forum. We’re gonna get started. Um,

 

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my name is Sam Garrin. I am Green Wave’s Director of Market Development,

 

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and I’m based in Boston, Massachusetts. Um,

 

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for those of you who are joining for the first time,

 

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farmer Forum is an initiative we launched last year to connect the ACT active

 

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farming community, um,

 

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by bringing together people from monthly calls on real tangible topics that you

 

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might be facing in the field. And, um,

 

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so we hosted our first webinar on post harvest handling and last year’s farmer

 

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forum series. Um, and so we are kicking off this year’s series.

 

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This is the very first one of this year’s series, um,

 

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with, um,

 

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another post-harvest handling webinar that builds on the findings, uh,

 

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from last year with some new ones,

 

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and also recaps some of what we know about best practices around post-harvest

 

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handling and quality.

 

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And I do wanna call out that the research that we’re gonna be presenting today

 

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was funded in part by a global seaweed coalition grant,

 

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which we’re very grateful for. Um,

 

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and one quick administrative thing before we get going. Um,

 

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this call is being recorded, but only in speaker view.

 

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So if you don’t come off mute or put anything in the chat,

 

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you will not show up in that recording. That said,

 

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if you don’t mind being recorded,

 

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feel free to put questions in the chat as we go. Uh,

 

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Gigi will keep track of those or, uh, save them till the end,

 

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and you can come off mute and ask those questions directly.

 

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So in, um,

 

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in order to stay on track with timing,

 

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we’re gonna do introductions in the chat today.

 

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So if you wouldn’t mind putting in the chat your name, uh,

 

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what your role in the industry is, and where your farm or business is located,

 

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and then everyone can see those come in, um, as we get moving here.

 

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So I, I do have some co-presenters today.

 

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Our folks will be on the call answering questions based on about our research.

 

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Um, I’m joined today by Jeff Brandenburg, um, and Eric Vander Cook of Q Fresh,

 

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which is an independent consultancy specializing in fresh produce, uh,

 

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food science and packaging design and testing. And, uh, behind the scenes,

 

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I’m also supported by Grace Coy, our market, uh, development program manager,

 

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and by Gigi Lititz, our programs coordinator.

 

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So today on our agenda,

 

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we are going to be diving into post-harvest handling and quality control,

 

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spending a few minutes talking about what those are and why we care about them.

 

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And then we’re gonna spend the majority of the time talking about the 2022 to

 

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2023, uh, harvest season research that we could did with Q Freshs labs,

 

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where we looked at reducing salt, iodine and biofouling.

 

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And we also looked further into what the, um,

 

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optimal temperature and relative humidity conditions are for storing kelp post

 

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harvest. We’ll end with a few suggestions for future research, uh, that,

 

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that anyone out there could do, and then of course,

 

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leave plenty of time at the end for.

 

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So to start, what is post-harvest handling? Um,

 

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we think of post harvest handling, not just in seaweed,

 

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but across the board in any agricultural context as the stage of crop

 

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production immediately following harvest.

 

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And so this includes everything from transportation to

 

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cooling, cleaning, sorting, and packing.

 

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And it is really the most important period to preserve quality.

 

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So when that kelp comes out of the water,

 

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it is the freshest and best that it is ever going to be,

 

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and it can only go downhill from there. So your job as the farmer,

 

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or as anyone who plans to sell kelp commercially, um, or to feed people, um,

 

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is to preserve that quality, uh, because, uh, this is,

 

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this is the only chance you get basically, um,

 

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the science behind that. Just to do a quick science lesson here, um,

 

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you know, we all know that kelp photosynthesizes,

 

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and that when it’s photosynthesizes, it is, uh,

 

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pulling in c o two and, uh,

 

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it is using that c o two with, uh,

 

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sunshine to produce glucose. And it is also then,

 

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um, releasing if my clicks will work.

 

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There we go re releasing oxygen.

 

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And when we buy fresh fruits and vegetables from the store,

 

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we have an implicit understanding that they are in some ways still alive, right?

 

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So even though they’re no longer attached to the plant, they are, um,

 

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alive in some way. But if we keep them around long enough,

 

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they begin to decay and die, then we have to throw ’em away.

 

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So in the period of time between when something is harvested and when it

 

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eventually breaks down and dies, there are these metabolic reactions happening,

 

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and specifically the tissues that once performed, photosynthesis, um,

 

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switch to respiration.

 

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And respiration is the same exact activity that humans and every other living

 

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creature on earth is doing. And it is the opposite of photosynthesis.

 

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And so this is also what kelp does at night, by the way, when,

 

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when the sun goes down. Um, so the sun in respiration,

 

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we’re using that glucose in combination with oxygen and transforming it into

 

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carbon dioxide, water and energy or heat.

 

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So in other words, just like that fresh ke, uh, just like the fresh, um,

 

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produce in the grocery store,

 

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fresh kelp after it’s harvested is still alive and is doing something very

 

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different than what it did in the ocean.

 

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And a respiration rate is the speed at which

 

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respiration occurs. Um, and so we’re, we’re,

 

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what we’re trying to do when we wanna preserve quality is to slow

 

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down that respiration rate and keep that kelp in this respiration pseudo

 

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alive state for as long as possible.

 

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Because eventually when we use up all that glucose or when all that,

 

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uh, oxygen is used up, your kelp is going to die. And at that point,

 

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it gets real yucky and nobody will want to buy it.

 

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So when we think about quality, quality is really, uh,

 

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a measurable criteria that anyone could use to evaluate and compare

 

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seaweed crops. This is a little different than shelf life or food safety.

 

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So shelf life, you’ve heard that word is the length of

 

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time during which a, a product is desirable.

 

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And food safety refers to practices that prevent contamination, pathogen growth,

 

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and spoilage that could lead to sickness in people.

 

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And sea Grant has done amazing work on food safety. I see Michael Cella in the,

 

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in the audience. Um, he’s done some amazing work. Anushka, uh,

 

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has done some amazing work on food safety.

 

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That’s not really what we’re talking about today.

 

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We’re talking about quality standards, which have more to do with, uh,

 

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whether your product is going to be accepted by the buyer and whether it is

 

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going to be appropriate for whatever use cases you have in mind.

 

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So quality is really driven by whatever your customer wants.

 

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It may differ between buyers, even within the same market,

 

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but it can help differentiate your kelp from someone else’s kelp.

 

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And it can help command a premium price if you are able to consistently hit your

 

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quality standards.

 

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And some ways that we can think about quality, you might say, well,

 

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I know it when I see it,

 

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but that doesn’t really work when it comes to interacting with buyers. The more,

 

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uh, concrete we can get about what quality means,

 

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the better off these relationships are gonna be between all the way across the

 

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supply chain from, uh, from nurseries all the way to buyers.

 

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And so these are some ways that we can think about quality when it comes to,

 

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you know, what temperature is the kelp when it comes in, when it’s harvested,

 

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uh, what’s the moisture level? What color is it? The texture, the odor,

 

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and really putting words to describe what these things are.

 

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Maybe even attaching some photos to,

 

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to explain what you mean when you say something is a certain color. Um,

 

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these are some guidance that we have developed from talking to a lot of buyers,

 

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but you will likely want to come up with your own, um,

 

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that as you work with buyers to figure out what they want.

 

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And here we’ve summarized some of the things that we know already about

 

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what farmers can do to control quality. Um, some of these are

 

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during harvest and transport. Some of these are post-harvest. These are just,

 

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uh, you know, these are,

 

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are the commonly accepted ways in which we know we can control quality.

 

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And with the research that we did that we’re gonna be talking about shortly,

 

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we were trying to drill down on some of these topics and figure out, well,

 

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what else is,

 

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is there anything else we can do or can we get more specific about, um,

 

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for example, this contact with fresh water. Why,

 

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why don’t we want contact with fresh water? And how fresh is the water?

 

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And if you know that to be an issue,

 

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and how long would it have to be in con in contact for that to be an issue?

 

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Um, so getting into that research now, um, we

 

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decided to dig into some really common things that we have heard from buyers

 

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as being issues. So cell content, iodine, content,

 

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biofouling, all things that buyers are concerned about when they’re buying kelp,

 

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especially for food uses.

 

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And then we wanted to build on some research that we did last year around

 

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storage conditions for,

 

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for kelp quality and understand how humidity and,

 

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and temperature might affect the quality of the kelp when it is in storage.

 

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And in all of these studies that we did,

 

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we were really trying to use minimal processing techniques. Um,

 

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one of the things that QF Fresh specializes in is fresh product,

 

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fresh produce. And we’re looking at ways that we could,

 

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um, you know, control the salt,

 

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control the iodine without completely transforming the,

 

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the fresh kelp into some something else,

 

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into something that’s dried or fermented or otherwise,

 

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just a fundamentally different product methods that are really common in fresh

 

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produce processing. So we’re not trying to reinvent the wheel,

 

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we’re trying to say like,

 

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what do we already do in other food sectors and do they work on kelp and,

 

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and what effect do they do they have on kelp?

 

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So let’s get into it. Um, salt reduction. Why do we care?

 

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So sugar kelp does have a relatively high sodium content, and it is,

 

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you know, it’s less than straight salt, but, but it, it’s a pretty up there. Um,

 

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and salt levels are a concern for food and agriculture applications.

 

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So from the food side, there are folks who are watching their sodium,

 

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that is something that C P G products have to pay attention to when they’re

 

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building, building out their product and, and, um, developing their food labels.

 

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And for agriculture,

 

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people are concerned about applying salt to the, to the ground.

 

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You know, too much salt could have toxic effects for plants,

 

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and there are really very few extraction methods that preserve a fresh,

 

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fresh product. So, um,

 

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in addition to losing salt through some of the existing processing methods,

 

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we know that you are also losing calcium minerals and having a texture change if

 

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you do things like blanc your kelp. So a question we had going into this was,

 

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are we able to reduce salt? Why

 

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preserving, um, some of qualities of, uh,

 

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the desirable qualities of fresh ke?

 

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So we tried what is essentially the, the simplest possible way to reduce salt,

 

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which is we, we wanted to see, okay, if we take this kelp and,

 

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and we put it in different levels of salt water,

 

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so to going all the way from the same salt water,

 

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the same saltiness as the ocean down to

 

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totally fresh water, um, you know,

 

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it will the kelp be encouraged to essentially just release that salt

 

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into the water.

 

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So we put kelp in different salinity wash waters,

 

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and we stir it around a little bit,

 

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and we checked and documented the salt concentration in every approximately two

 

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to five minutes, and noted changes in color, texture, appearance,

 

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trigger pressure. So that’s the, like how, how, uh,

 

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almost like the texture, like how, how rigid is it? And, uh,

 

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we also looked to see if there was any bio foul removal, removal.

 

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And what we found was that the largest increase in,

 

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in salinity, in,

 

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in salt released from the kelp occurred in the first step down from

 

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ocean water to brackish water. And, um,

 

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with each subsequent bath,

 

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the amount of salt that was released decreased.

 

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So here it is in chart format,

 

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you can see this big jump in the beginning from, uh,

 

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37.5 P P T to, uh, 20.

 

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And then from there it kind of, it went, it, it, um,

 

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kind of fluctuated a little bit. Um, so we,

 

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we can see that there was a big jump and then less benefit from the era and out.

 

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And we also just go back to this last point in here.

 

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Notice the blistering occurred, and this was not a surprise to us. We,

 

216

00:13:26.610 –> 00:13:30.850

we know from all the best practices that are out there that we know that

 

217

00:13:30.850 –> 00:13:35.650

blistering occurred. But, um, so with this finding, we said, okay, well, well,

 

218

00:13:35.650 –> 00:13:39.370

could we find out more about that blistering? And why does it happen?

 

219

00:13:39.430 –> 00:13:43.330

And when does it happen? So we then dived into the,

 

220

00:13:43.710 –> 00:13:46.810

the blistering a little bit further. This was not officially part of our study,

 

221

00:13:46.910 –> 00:13:49.770

but you know, scientists get curious. So, uh,

 

222

00:13:49.870 –> 00:13:53.130

we decided to investigate, um,

 

223

00:13:53.840 –> 00:13:58.530

what happens when, uh, we put salt the,

 

224

00:13:58.550 –> 00:14:01.210

the kelp into varying levels of salt water.

 

225

00:14:01.630 –> 00:14:05.970

Is there a salinity level that is sufficient to prevent or delay blistering?

 

226

00:14:06.470 –> 00:14:09.970

And, um, does, does it the blistering appear in different places, et cetera.

 

227

00:14:10.870 –> 00:14:15.090

So this was one of the, my favorite parts of the experiment actually, um, was,

 

228

00:14:15.110 –> 00:14:19.050

was learning all this new, all these new fun facts about blistering. Um,

 

229

00:14:19.340 –> 00:14:20.173

first of all,

 

230

00:14:20.270 –> 00:14:24.650

we learned that lower salinity does result in,

 

231

00:14:24.670 –> 00:14:27.330

in quicker blistering, and that blistering increases over time.

 

232

00:14:27.870 –> 00:14:29.090

But we also learned that,

 

233

00:14:29.240 –> 00:14:33.650

that there is a period of time before blistering occurs.

 

234

00:14:33.710 –> 00:14:35.610

So we found that sugar kelp,

 

235

00:14:35.610 –> 00:14:39.490

in some cases could withstand seven to 12 minutes in fresh water prior to

 

236

00:14:39.490 –> 00:14:42.810

blistering. Um, we also discovered that,

 

237

00:14:42.810 –> 00:14:46.570

that you could actually delay that blistering by adding just a little bit of

 

238

00:14:46.570 –> 00:14:50.610

salt to, to the water. And so we, uh, here you can say,

 

239

00:14:50.660 –> 00:14:55.360

could this third bullet point blistering could be delayed up to 60 minutes with

 

240

00:14:55.420 –> 00:15:00.310

as little as five P p t salt. And finally,

 

241

00:15:00.690 –> 00:15:05.190

we also saw that blistering actually stops when the sugar kelp is removed from

 

242

00:15:05.190 –> 00:15:07.710

direct contact with the salt, with the low salinity water.

 

243

00:15:07.710 –> 00:15:12.110

So it’s not like you put it on, put the, the, the freshwater contact,

 

244

00:15:12.850 –> 00:15:16.390

uh, then results in blistering spreading throughout the kelp, and that,

 

245

00:15:16.460 –> 00:15:21.030

that you’ve just ruined your entire batch. If you can stop that, uh,

 

246

00:15:21.030 –> 00:15:22.230

contact from occurring,

 

247

00:15:23.990 –> 00:15:27.890

you will no longer see advanced damage to the kelp.

 

248

00:15:29.110 –> 00:15:31.050

Um, so this was just one study.

 

249

00:15:31.190 –> 00:15:34.370

We would really encourage others to do more research in this area,

 

250

00:15:34.590 –> 00:15:37.450

but I thought this was pretty interesting and had some pretty interesting

 

251

00:15:37.450 –> 00:15:41.610

implications for, um, folks who are, uh, might,

 

252

00:15:41.610 –> 00:15:44.450

might be harvesting under suboptimal conditions where they,

 

253

00:15:44.510 –> 00:15:48.850

the sugar kelp might come into contact perhaps briefly with freshwater.

 

254

00:15:52.430 –> 00:15:55.170

We then looked at iodine reduction.

 

255

00:15:55.470 –> 00:15:59.570

And the reason we care about iodine reduction is that, uh,

 

256

00:15:59.770 –> 00:16:03.130

a lot of the iodine that is in sugar kelp is absorbed into the bloodstream.

 

257

00:16:03.480 –> 00:16:07.610

High iodine intake can lead to hyperthyroidism, and, um,

 

258

00:16:07.610 –> 00:16:11.530

there can at times, depending on where and when the kelp is harvested,

 

259

00:16:11.590 –> 00:16:15.290

be a lot of iodine in there. So there’s a lot of iodine in there to begin with.

 

260

00:16:15.350 –> 00:16:19.370

And then the majority of it is being absorbed by humans. So, um,

 

261

00:16:20.150 –> 00:16:23.890

we want to be able to control the iodine pretty, uh, reliably.

 

262

00:16:24.510 –> 00:16:26.810

And the similar to salt,

 

263

00:16:27.030 –> 00:16:31.530

the known methods for getting iodine out significantly modify the kelp from its

 

264

00:16:31.590 –> 00:16:32.423

its fresh format.

 

265

00:16:32.950 –> 00:16:37.770

So we decided to use ozone in modified pH wash water

 

266

00:16:38.150 –> 00:16:39.530

to see if we could, again,

 

267

00:16:39.530 –> 00:16:43.810

encourage kelp to just release its iodine into the water. Similar to,

 

268

00:16:44.830 –> 00:16:45.160

uh,

 

269

00:16:45.160 –> 00:16:49.850

with the salt and ozone in wash water is a common technique used

 

270

00:16:49.990 –> 00:16:54.850

in, um, cleaning produce, as is the modified pH wash water.

 

271

00:16:59.020 –> 00:17:03.080

So what we tested, we filled 40 gallons of water,

 

272

00:17:03.860 –> 00:17:05.720

uh, in 60 gallon tanks. We, again,

 

273

00:17:05.990 –> 00:17:10.920

used the same salinity as the Atlantic Ocean in order to not introduce

 

274

00:17:10.920 –> 00:17:14.440

other variables here. And then we used ozone generators to,

 

275

00:17:14.500 –> 00:17:18.560

to create ozone in the water. Um, we added, uh,

 

276

00:17:18.560 –> 00:17:22.880

various other substan, uh, kind of sanitizers or, or pH modifiers to the water.

 

277

00:17:23.220 –> 00:17:25.920

And we added CCB to the tank, and we stirred

 

278

00:17:28.090 –> 00:17:29.230

and we

 

279

00:17:31.770 –> 00:17:35.610

observed things very similar to what we looked at for, for the salt experiments.

 

280

00:17:36.270 –> 00:17:38.810

And then we tested the iodine levels in the water,

 

281

00:17:39.270 –> 00:17:43.410

and we also tested for iodine left inside the kelp itself after,

 

282

00:17:44.310 –> 00:17:45.650

um, after it was processed.

 

283

00:17:47.280 –> 00:17:50.360

So what we found here is that the largest release of iodine, uh,

 

284

00:17:50.620 –> 00:17:55.150

was occurred with, um, with parasitic acid.

 

285

00:17:55.530 –> 00:17:59.440

So that is a, a very low pH, um,

 

286

00:18:00.690 –> 00:18:01.310

cleanser,

 

287

00:18:01.310 –> 00:18:05.530

or that is often used in produce processing in a hypers saline environment.

 

288

00:18:05.530 –> 00:18:08.530

So we added a little salt and we, uh,

 

289

00:18:08.530 –> 00:18:11.690

there was a reduction in iodine in all of the,

 

290

00:18:11.750 –> 00:18:16.660

the instances where we used P A a in general, the higher salinity,

 

291

00:18:17.720 –> 00:18:18.030

uh,

 

292

00:18:18.030 –> 00:18:22.620

water wash waters were more effective at reducing IOD con iodine content in the

 

293

00:18:22.650 –> 00:18:27.470

kelp. Um, we hypothesize that this has to do with the connectivity levels,

 

294

00:18:28.090 –> 00:18:32.430

but it was fairly challenging to figure out how effective this method was,

 

295

00:18:32.970 –> 00:18:36.990

uh, because the iodine levels in the kelp itself were so variable,

 

296

00:18:37.250 –> 00:18:41.710

and we saw that, um, both with the, the fresh product and then with the,

 

297

00:18:41.850 –> 00:18:42.830

the processed product,

 

298

00:18:42.840 –> 00:18:46.670

there was just so little consistency in what the original iodine levels were,

 

299

00:18:46.900 –> 00:18:48.590

that it was kind of hard to tell.

 

300

00:18:48.690 –> 00:18:51.190

So we would probably do this differently next time. Um,

 

301

00:18:51.490 –> 00:18:56.030

but it was interesting to see that the higher conductivity led to,

 

302

00:18:56.530 –> 00:18:59.470

uh, in general more iodine release.

 

303

00:19:03.110 –> 00:19:06.280

Finally, um, we looked, or, sorry, not finally. This is,

 

304

00:19:06.280 –> 00:19:09.800

this is finally for the, uh, for the things that we did in, in wash water,

 

305

00:19:09.800 –> 00:19:12.280

essentially. Um, we looked at bio fowl reduction.

 

306

00:19:12.540 –> 00:19:14.980

And for those of you who are active farmers,

 

307

00:19:15.400 –> 00:19:19.580

you know that bio fowl is a big concern for seaweed,

 

308

00:19:19.580 –> 00:19:22.100

that going to food uses.

 

309

00:19:22.480 –> 00:19:27.060

The primary way of managing biofouling is just simply early detection.

 

310

00:19:27.060 –> 00:19:30.500

You go out on your boat every week, the closer you get to, uh, to harvest,

 

311

00:19:30.680 –> 00:19:33.340

and you look for it. And when you see the first signs of biofouling,

 

312

00:19:33.340 –> 00:19:34.173

you harvest.

 

313

00:19:34.440 –> 00:19:38.500

But these methods of early detection are not always successful.

 

314

00:19:38.500 –> 00:19:41.780

Sometimes you miss something and you do end up with biofouling kelp.

 

315

00:19:42.160 –> 00:19:46.980

So the more we know how to remove biofuel after it has happened, the, uh,

 

316

00:19:46.980 –> 00:19:48.140

better we are able to meet,

 

317

00:19:48.290 –> 00:19:51.380

meet buyers’ needs by giving them the clean product that they want.

 

318

00:19:51.800 –> 00:19:56.220

So we were interested in learning whether there were simple and

 

319

00:19:56.730 –> 00:20:01.620

expensive ways to remove biofuel during a wash step. So once again,

 

320

00:20:02.300 –> 00:20:02.810

we, um,

 

321

00:20:02.810 –> 00:20:07.460

decided to use substances that are very commonly used in

 

322

00:20:07.630 –> 00:20:08.940

fresh produce processing.

 

323

00:20:09.320 –> 00:20:14.020

We applied varying levels of chlorine and parasitic acid, and we agitated the,

 

324

00:20:14.360 –> 00:20:17.940

uh, kelp and we observed its effectiveness for moving biofouling.

 

325

00:20:19.670 –> 00:20:23.730

And what we found here is that, uh, so first of all, I will caveat that,

 

326

00:20:23.730 –> 00:20:27.870

that the kelp that we got, uh, was cleaner than we expected.

 

327

00:20:27.970 –> 00:20:31.950

We expected there to be more biofouling. And, um, there, there was some,

 

328

00:20:32.130 –> 00:20:33.510

but there was not a lot.

 

329

00:20:33.970 –> 00:20:37.590

So we can’t say anything about these methods effectiveness on, you know,

 

330

00:20:37.610 –> 00:20:40.470

really bio fouled kelp. But, um,

 

331

00:20:40.850 –> 00:20:44.630

you can see from the pictures we had some small Bria Owens mostly on the edges

 

332

00:20:44.630 –> 00:20:45.830

of the main blades of our kelp.

 

333

00:20:46.170 –> 00:20:48.520

And we found that chlorine made bio foul removal easier,

 

334

00:20:48.820 –> 00:20:51.240

and the parasitic acid made removal significantly easier.

 

335

00:20:52.100 –> 00:20:55.880

And then if you combine parasitic acid with minimal agitation,

 

336

00:20:56.670 –> 00:20:59.420

that was, uh,

 

337

00:21:00.120 –> 00:21:05.100

the most effective method that we tried for getting that bio foul off,

 

338

00:21:06.850 –> 00:21:10.510

moving into storage conditions. Um, we, for this study,

 

339

00:21:10.510 –> 00:21:14.830

really wanted to build on what we learned last year about different container

 

340

00:21:14.830 –> 00:21:19.230

types and our understanding of the lifecycle of seaweed

 

341

00:21:19.230 –> 00:21:20.063

post-harvest,

 

342

00:21:20.250 –> 00:21:25.190

and the fact that it does need access to air in order to

 

343

00:21:25.470 –> 00:21:29.990

continue respiring and to not de start decaying, uh,

 

344

00:21:30.050 –> 00:21:33.750

too quickly. So under current food safety guidelines,

 

345

00:21:33.750 –> 00:21:35.670

fresh seaweeds should be stored below 40 degrees,

 

346

00:21:35.770 –> 00:21:40.030

but we were wondering whether it mattered how much lower than 40 degrees,

 

347

00:21:40.030 –> 00:21:43.110

whether there was any variation at different temperatures,

 

348

00:21:43.650 –> 00:21:46.630

and was there such a thing as too much moisture or too little?

 

349

00:21:47.090 –> 00:21:50.790

And so we were really looking to learn more about kind of the bounds of this.

 

350

00:21:54.410 –> 00:21:58.680

So what we did here was we

 

351

00:22:00.060 –> 00:22:05.010

harvested some kelp and we repackaged it in avar

 

352

00:22:05.110 –> 00:22:09.410

sealed bags with, uh, varying levels of macro perforations.

 

353

00:22:09.470 –> 00:22:12.690

We put them in sealed bags with micro perforations,

 

354

00:22:13.070 –> 00:22:16.730

we put them in an R P C, which is, um, I’ll show it to you in a second.

 

355

00:22:16.840 –> 00:22:20.370

It’s like a perforated, uh, uh, uh,

 

356

00:22:20.390 –> 00:22:23.810

or a vented small tote that’s used in the produce industry a lot.

 

357

00:22:24.350 –> 00:22:28.690

And we tried putting a bag around that. We tried putting a bag around it,

 

358

00:22:28.750 –> 00:22:29.810

but leaving one end open.

 

359

00:22:30.110 –> 00:22:34.530

And then we tried just leaving the seaweed completely exposed in a cooler,

 

360

00:22:38.360 –> 00:22:43.020

and there’s an R P C right there so that these bented totes are, are very,

 

361

00:22:43.260 –> 00:22:47.820

very common in produce. And so we monitored odor, color, senescence,

 

362

00:22:47.820 –> 00:22:50.100

microbial growth, and, and moisture changes.

 

363

00:22:50.640 –> 00:22:54.980

And we put the packages in different temperature ranges and, uh,

 

364

00:22:55.160 –> 00:22:59.900

we had the ambient air, uh, variable as well.

 

365

00:23:01.820 –> 00:23:06.650

So what we found was actually that a lot of these factors did not

 

366

00:23:06.650 –> 00:23:09.130

matter as much we as we expected them to.

 

367

00:23:09.310 –> 00:23:14.130

So there was not very much visible difference between

 

368

00:23:14.510 –> 00:23:19.250

the kelp stored at 33 degrees and the kelp stored at 36 degrees,

 

369

00:23:19.270 –> 00:23:23.530

and in fact, the kelp seemed to behave perfectly fine up to about 45 degrees.

 

370

00:23:23.710 –> 00:23:27.410

And so, um, you know, obviously the food for food safety reasons,

 

371

00:23:27.470 –> 00:23:28.970

we do want that to be below 40.

 

372

00:23:29.030 –> 00:23:33.160

But the good news is it’s not that sensitive below 40.

 

373

00:23:33.820 –> 00:23:36.560

We also found that, uh, as far as humidity goes,

 

374

00:23:36.860 –> 00:23:39.920

the kelp inside a bag re uh, we,

 

375

00:23:40.000 –> 00:23:44.960

we had it at lots of different levels of perforations, and we, uh,

 

376

00:23:45.200 –> 00:23:48.320

would’ve expected that humidity to change a little bit,

 

377

00:23:48.340 –> 00:23:52.480

but the seaweed really just humidified the inside of the bag to close to a

 

378

00:23:52.480 –> 00:23:55.960

hundred percent, 95 to a hundred percent. Um,

 

379

00:23:57.990 –> 00:24:00.760

and so, uh,

 

380

00:24:00.860 –> 00:24:05.640

as long as the seaweed was kept above 83%

 

381

00:24:05.920 –> 00:24:10.360

relative humidity, it was able to maintain its quality pretty darn well. So the,

 

382

00:24:10.420 –> 00:24:13.760

the, the kinda the lesson learned here is that access to air is important,

 

383

00:24:14.300 –> 00:24:16.000

but that air does need to be moist.

 

384

00:24:16.420 –> 00:24:18.240

And as long as you’re able to accomplish that,

 

385

00:24:18.240 –> 00:24:19.880

which you can do through any number of ways,

 

386

00:24:19.880 –> 00:24:22.320

whether that’s a covered vented coat,

 

387

00:24:23.160 –> 00:24:28.160

a sealed package with perforations in it, or just a room that has high humidity,

 

388

00:24:28.580 –> 00:24:30.080

you, you’re gonna be pretty, okay.

 

389

00:24:30.580 –> 00:24:34.040

So the only tests that showed degradation were this, uh,

 

390

00:24:34.040 –> 00:24:38.800

the R P C where there is only, uh, either where it was completely uncovered,

 

391

00:24:38.800 –> 00:24:43.080

so it was subjected to humidity levels that were too low, uh, or the,

 

392

00:24:43.100 –> 00:24:46.240

the one where it was the bag sort of was open at one end.

 

393

00:24:46.260 –> 00:24:51.240

And then we did see that that end was dried out and, and kind of, uh, less,

 

394

00:24:52.300 –> 00:24:56.270

less, uh, it had started. Yeah, it started to dry out,

 

395

00:24:56.270 –> 00:25:00.790

but then again when we closed the bag again, it actually re moisturized itself,

 

396

00:25:00.840 –> 00:25:02.350

which was really pretty fascinating.

 

397

00:25:06.720 –> 00:25:11.020

So next steps we would, um, you know, we,

 

398

00:25:11.080 –> 00:25:15.540

we were bound by time and money as everyone is, uh, in terms of these studies.

 

399

00:25:15.920 –> 00:25:18.300

We feel like we really just, uh,

 

400

00:25:18.480 –> 00:25:22.100

hit the tip of the iceberg here in terms of all the different things that we

 

401

00:25:22.100 –> 00:25:23.260

could investigate further.

 

402

00:25:23.720 –> 00:25:25.740

And so these are suggestions that we’re putting out there,

 

403

00:25:25.930 –> 00:25:29.180

sort of to the universe for other folks to research.

 

404

00:25:29.830 –> 00:25:32.340

These would include for this, for salt reduction,

 

405

00:25:32.340 –> 00:25:35.060

looking at electrolysis or electrolyzed water,

 

406

00:25:35.210 –> 00:25:37.700

looking at different temperature ranges in that wash water,

 

407

00:25:37.700 –> 00:25:41.580

looking at time in the wash water and additional sanitizer concentrations.

 

408

00:25:42.750 –> 00:25:46.850

Um, for the blistering work, one of the things we did not look at, we was,

 

409

00:25:46.910 –> 00:25:50.650

we did not do a full nutrient analysis. So we would,

 

410

00:25:50.910 –> 00:25:55.210

we really wonder what else is happening at the time of blistering

 

411

00:26:01.250 –> 00:26:04.490

Nutrients? Are we losing shelf life? Uh,

 

412

00:26:04.670 –> 00:26:06.610

or is it truly just a cosmetic thing?

 

413

00:26:07.230 –> 00:26:11.050

I’d be curious to see what happens with higher ozone concentrations.

 

414

00:26:11.070 –> 00:26:15.570

We use relatively small ozone generators and would be interested in seeing what

 

415

00:26:15.570 –> 00:26:19.090

would happen if, if larger or more ozone generators were used.

 

416

00:26:19.540 –> 00:26:22.930

Additional sanitizer con concentrations would be interesting to look at as well.

 

417

00:26:23.590 –> 00:26:26.850

And, uh, there’s, based on the literature,

 

418

00:26:26.850 –> 00:26:30.850

there might also be some benefit to trying different light intensities to see

 

419

00:26:30.850 –> 00:26:33.530

whether that affects the release of iodine at all

 

420

00:26:36.070 –> 00:26:37.680

When it comes to storage conditions,

 

421

00:26:38.270 –> 00:26:41.560

obviously additional temperature and humidity levels would be interesting to

 

422

00:26:41.560 –> 00:26:45.960

explore. We also hypothesize that the, um,

 

423

00:26:46.470 –> 00:26:47.180

storage,

 

424

00:26:47.180 –> 00:26:50.600

the optimal storage conditions might vary for the kelp depending on when it’s

 

425

00:26:50.600 –> 00:26:53.840

harvested, depending on what temperature the water is when it’s harvested,

 

426

00:26:54.540 –> 00:26:55.640

that’s something to look at.

 

427

00:26:56.060 –> 00:27:00.480

And it would also be interesting to look at the shelf life of packaged or value

 

428

00:27:00.480 –> 00:27:04.120

added products after the storage in various conditions. So, you know,

 

429

00:27:04.340 –> 00:27:07.680

it looks fine, uh, based on what we were able to observe,

 

430

00:27:08.100 –> 00:27:12.400

but are there actually longer term implications of storing it in different ways?

 

431

00:27:12.540 –> 00:27:16.580

We, we are not sure about that. And then when it comes to bio file reduction,

 

432

00:27:17.040 –> 00:27:18.700

uh, we would like to test the,

 

433

00:27:18.720 –> 00:27:22.020

the methods that worked for the smaller bio ffo on larger,

 

434

00:27:22.050 –> 00:27:26.260

more developed biofouling. We’d like to try different types of biofouling, um,

 

435

00:27:26.590 –> 00:27:30.020

mechanical agitation in one of these, um,

 

436

00:27:30.900 –> 00:27:33.580

machines that is actually intended for washing produce.

 

437

00:27:34.040 –> 00:27:35.460

We did this pretty manually, as you could see,

 

438

00:27:35.460 –> 00:27:39.260

we were in a food processing facility using commercial equipment, but it is not,

 

439

00:27:40.230 –> 00:27:43.570

um, commercial produce processing equipment.

 

440

00:27:43.590 –> 00:27:47.370

So that would be an area to expand into. And then of course, uh,

 

441

00:27:47.370 –> 00:27:49.650

we would also maybe wanna vary the time, uh,

 

442

00:27:49.650 –> 00:27:51.730

soaking in the wash water a bit more.

 

443

00:27:58.830 –> 00:28:00.120

Um, okay.

 

444

00:28:00.800 –> 00:28:04.760

I know that was a huge amount of information through any of these,

 

445

00:28:04.760 –> 00:28:07.600

but wanna make sure we have lots of time for questions.

 

446

00:28:10.510 –> 00:28:13.170

Um, let’s dive in here.

 

447

00:28:20.500 –> 00:28:25.340

Okay. Um, Mike,

 

448

00:28:26.980 –> 00:28:30.160

you had a question about the lifecycle slide,

 

449

00:28:31.940 –> 00:28:32.773

so lemme go back.

 

450

00:28:33.020 –> 00:28:34.280

Yes, yes, ma’am.

 

451

00:28:35.660 –> 00:28:38.880

So you talked about it being alive, like when,

 

452

00:28:40.510 –> 00:28:45.480

when is it no longer alive? Meaning, you know,

 

453

00:28:45.480 –> 00:28:48.200

when you cut it off of the line,

 

454

00:28:48.630 –> 00:28:53.320

does that sort of start the death spiral or, you know,

 

455

00:28:53.320 –> 00:28:58.040

if you cut it off and keep it in salt water, does it stay alive?

 

456

00:29:00.780 –> 00:29:03.760

Or if you were to yeah, you know, cut it at the hold fast,

 

457

00:29:04.350 –> 00:29:05.520

does that keep it alive?

 

458

00:29:08.320 –> 00:29:12.420

Um, I have not looked at that research as part of the work that we’ve done with

 

459

00:29:12.420 –> 00:29:17.020

GreenWave, but Jeff, I know you’ve done work with other, um, seaweed companies.

 

460

00:29:17.040 –> 00:29:22.040

Is there anything you can say to, to like what the cutoff point is?

 

461

00:29:22.900 –> 00:29:23.960

Uh, so, um,

 

462

00:29:26.700 –> 00:29:30.100

Yelp acts a lot like press root, fruits and vegetables.

 

463

00:29:31.180 –> 00:29:35.080

So when a fruit and vegetable is on the vine, um,

 

464

00:29:35.900 –> 00:29:39.440

photosynthesis is happening as, as Sam mentioned,

 

465

00:29:40.100 –> 00:29:42.400

as soon as you harvest it or cut it, um,

 

466

00:29:43.230 –> 00:29:48.120

that photosynthesis transitions as does a lot of other biochemical processes,

 

467

00:29:48.700 –> 00:29:53.280

but transitions over to respiration. So at that point in time,

 

468

00:29:53.910 –> 00:29:57.640

it’s slowly beginning to die, um,

 

469

00:29:58.420 –> 00:30:03.240

but it’s still considered alive as long as it’s consuming oxygen and giving

 

470

00:30:03.300 –> 00:30:04.560

off carbon dioxide.

 

471

00:30:05.140 –> 00:30:08.440

And depending upon what conditions you store it at,

 

472

00:30:08.940 –> 00:30:13.640

it will continue to do so. Some produce can last, you know,

 

473

00:30:13.910 –> 00:30:14.743

15,

 

474

00:30:14.800 –> 00:30:19.800

17 days under the right conditions and still be considered alive at

 

475

00:30:19.800 –> 00:30:23.520

some point in time, though, it’s going to use up all of its energy,

 

476

00:30:23.670 –> 00:30:27.880

it’s no longer gonna consume oxygen, give off carbon dioxide,

 

477

00:30:27.950 –> 00:30:32.920

heat and moisture, and then it is completely dead. Um,

 

478

00:30:33.260 –> 00:30:38.240

so that’s usually a number of days after you harvest it. But make no mistake,

 

479

00:30:39.310 –> 00:30:43.360

once you harvest it, the clock starts ticking. Uh,

 

480

00:30:43.620 –> 00:30:48.080

and so what you’re trying to do is extend that clock,

 

481

00:30:48.260 –> 00:30:50.680

extend that time period as long as possible.

 

482

00:30:51.980 –> 00:30:54.440

So, so that ties into my second question that I posted.

 

483

00:30:54.660 –> 00:30:58.640

So if you were to harvest it and put it in bags and then throw those bags, um,

 

484

00:30:58.910 –> 00:31:03.800

over the side and sort of store those in the seawater for throughout the

 

485

00:31:03.800 –> 00:31:07.480

day until you’re ready to go in, does that extend the,

 

486

00:31:08.850 –> 00:31:12.340

the liveness, you know, does that buy you the eight hours, um,

 

487

00:31:12.730 –> 00:31:15.340

that it otherwise would be in a tub starting to,

 

488

00:31:15.340 –> 00:31:18.420

Yeah, so that’s a great question, Mike. What you’re talking about,

 

489

00:31:19.200 –> 00:31:22.820

we refer to as modified atmosphere packaging. And you know,

 

490

00:31:22.820 –> 00:31:26.980

and this is true for all leafy green products, it’s true for seaweed.

 

491

00:31:27.040 –> 00:31:30.940

So the seaweed is consuming oxygen, giving off carbon dioxide.

 

492

00:31:31.400 –> 00:31:34.460

If you put it inside some kind of container,

 

493

00:31:35.080 –> 00:31:37.940

it will begin and seal that container like a bag.

 

494

00:31:38.480 –> 00:31:42.620

It will begin to draw oxygen out and put carbon dioxide in.

 

495

00:31:42.680 –> 00:31:45.460

It will change the atmosphere inside that package.

 

496

00:31:46.480 –> 00:31:50.380

By lowering the level of oxygen in the package and increasing the level of

 

497

00:31:50.380 –> 00:31:51.300

carbon dioxide,

 

498

00:31:51.480 –> 00:31:55.940

you’re actually putting the seaweed to sleep and it at,

 

499

00:31:55.940 –> 00:31:58.020

which then prolongs its life.

 

500

00:31:59.040 –> 00:32:03.940

So you don’t necessarily have to put it back into the salt water if it’s a

 

501

00:32:03.940 –> 00:32:06.020

sealed bag, if it’s a unsealed bag,

 

502

00:32:06.450 –> 00:32:09.420

then you can put it back into the salt water.

 

503

00:32:10.000 –> 00:32:14.980

But that respiration is gonna take place no matter what once you

 

504

00:32:14.980 –> 00:32:18.260

harvest it. And the parameter that can

 

505

00:32:20.200 –> 00:32:24.410

dissect it more than anything else is temperature. The, the, the, um,

 

506

00:32:25.310 –> 00:32:29.130

the colder you keep it, the slower it’s gonna respire or

 

507

00:32:31.280 –> 00:32:32.113

Breathe. Okay.

 

508

00:32:32.390 –> 00:32:36.930

And Mike, about, you know, there, there are some folks, um,

 

509

00:32:37.030 –> 00:32:42.000

in Alaska in particular who, who, who are using tenders to go to.

 

510

00:32:42.220 –> 00:32:45.200

So they are doing what you’re saying, like in terms of the, like a brailer bag,

 

511

00:32:45.200 –> 00:32:48.280

basically, like a bag that, that is, um,

 

512

00:32:49.270 –> 00:32:53.320

that allows some water flow, uh, to the kelp still. Uh,

 

513

00:32:53.460 –> 00:32:54.920

and then so they’re like leaving the,

 

514

00:32:54.940 –> 00:32:58.400

the kelp sitting in the water and then folks are going to going to get it.

 

515

00:32:58.880 –> 00:33:00.560

I don’t, nobody, to my knowledge,

 

516

00:33:00.560 –> 00:33:05.320

nobody has done a side-by-side comparison of like, you go out, you harvest kelp,

 

517

00:33:05.320 –> 00:33:08.050

some of it you put in, uh,

 

518

00:33:08.750 –> 00:33:12.210

the like vented totes on land. And some of them you,

 

519

00:33:12.210 –> 00:33:16.610

some of it you put in a brailer bag and you look at it all in two days and see

 

520

00:33:16.610 –> 00:33:19.610

like, what did better. I don’t think anyone’s done a side-by-side comparison,

 

521

00:33:20.310 –> 00:33:24.930

but I can see some ways in which the brailer bag situation makes a lot of sense.

 

522

00:33:25.510 –> 00:33:29.650

You know, uh, salt water, like ocean water has oxygen dissolved in it,

 

523

00:33:29.670 –> 00:33:33.930

so it is still getting access to oxygen. It’s also, you’re relieving the weight,

 

524

00:33:33.990 –> 00:33:35.850

so it’s not getting, one of the things that happens,

 

525

00:33:35.940 –> 00:33:39.490

we’ve seen if you put the seaweed into huge containers on land,

 

526

00:33:39.590 –> 00:33:43.970

is that the weight of the seaweed just like crushes it and removes access to

 

527

00:33:43.990 –> 00:33:46.810

oxygen for the kelp actually in the middle first.

 

528

00:33:46.810 –> 00:33:49.210

People think that the kelp on the bottom that does the worst,

 

529

00:33:49.210 –> 00:33:53.090

and it’s actually the kelp in the middle ’cause it’s so compacted and has no

 

530

00:33:53.290 –> 00:33:56.690

access to oxygen at all. So, you know,

 

531

00:33:57.920 –> 00:34:01.770

anecdotally people have had success with, with the method you’re talking about,

 

532

00:34:01.830 –> 00:34:03.650

but I don’t know that anyone’s done a side by side.

 

533

00:34:05.080 –> 00:34:06.370

Okay. Thank you. Good stuff.

 

534

00:34:07.800 –> 00:34:12.650

Yeah. And you had another question, Mike, about harvesting during raining.

 

535

00:34:13.580 –> 00:34:17.050

Would you consider that little amount of water to lead to blistering? Yes.

 

536

00:34:17.110 –> 00:34:18.170

We have heard that, that,

 

537

00:34:18.170 –> 00:34:21.090

that even that small amount of water can lead to blistering if it just sits

 

538

00:34:21.090 –> 00:34:21.970

there on top.

 

539

00:34:23.240 –> 00:34:24.073

Okay.

 

540

00:34:24.900 –> 00:34:29.880

Um, and then Evie had a follow up question about whether removing kelp from the

 

541

00:34:29.880 –> 00:34:31.520

freshwater rinse and halter during the blistering.

 

542

00:34:31.520 –> 00:34:36.160

Did we drain it or quickly rinse it with salt water? Jeff, do you remember?

 

543

00:34:36.160 –> 00:34:37.400

Which? Which we did.

 

544

00:34:38.150 –> 00:34:38.983

We just drained it.

 

545

00:34:40.240 –> 00:34:41.073

You just drained it.

 

546

00:34:46.080 –> 00:34:49.030

There was also a question on, um,

 

547

00:34:49.780 –> 00:34:52.030

when the consumer eats it is, it’s still alive.

 

548

00:34:52.850 –> 00:34:57.030

If you market something as fresh, then yes,

 

549

00:34:57.460 –> 00:35:02.130

it’s still alive. It’s still consuming oxygen,

 

550

00:35:02.140 –> 00:35:05.250

still giving off carbon dioxide. You can’t,

 

551

00:35:05.790 –> 00:35:07.770

you can’t call it fresh if it’s not

 

552

00:35:11.670 –> 00:35:14.650

Great. Um,

 

553

00:35:16.960 –> 00:35:17.710

okay.

 

554

00:35:17.710 –> 00:35:22.250

Andrew asked whether we looked at replacing with any other salt

 

555

00:35:22.280 –> 00:35:26.280

solutions like potassium chloride.

 

556

00:35:28.570 –> 00:35:29.870

Do you have any thoughts on that, Jeff?

 

557

00:35:31.540 –> 00:35:33.960

Uh, for this experiment, we did not.

 

558

00:35:34.500 –> 00:35:38.880

We used typical table salt, salt sodium chloride.

 

559

00:35:40.250 –> 00:35:42.670

Um, we certainly could look at that at,

 

560

00:35:42.730 –> 00:35:45.190

at some point in time and it’s probably worth doing it,

 

561

00:35:45.610 –> 00:35:48.910

but that was outside the scope of this particular experiment.

 

562

00:35:55.280 –> 00:35:58.550

Great. And then my,

 

563

00:36:02.140 –> 00:36:07.030

when during sanitizer dips, did you assess how easy it was over time?

 

564

00:36:07.450 –> 00:36:10.350

So could these procedures realistically and effectively be achieved at

 

565

00:36:10.350 –> 00:36:11.183

commercial scales

 

566

00:36:12.830 –> 00:36:17.080

With the sanitizers? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, um, the p a a,

 

567

00:36:17.080 –> 00:36:20.960

which is very commonly used in the fresh produce industry,

 

568

00:36:21.900 –> 00:36:25.640

um, this could be done whether you, you know,

 

569

00:36:25.660 –> 00:36:30.160

you do a batch operation where you’re dipping it into the sanitizer for so many

 

570

00:36:30.160 –> 00:36:31.920

seconds and then you’re taking it out.

 

571

00:36:32.300 –> 00:36:36.680

Or if you have a trough where the water’s running through it and the sanitizer

 

572

00:36:36.740 –> 00:36:40.680

is in there being recirculated, these can, the you,

 

573

00:36:40.750 –> 00:36:45.290

what we found with sanitize, you could easily scale it up and,

 

574

00:36:45.390 –> 00:36:50.290

and in most almost all fresh processing facilities for fruits and vegetables,

 

575

00:36:50.780 –> 00:36:53.690

these kinds of equipment are already in place.

 

576

00:36:59.160 –> 00:36:59.993

Thanks, Jeff.

 

577

00:37:00.410 –> 00:37:04.300

This is Eric from QF Fresh. Um, expanding on, expanding on that. Um,

 

578

00:37:05.570 –> 00:37:10.160

we also saw the biggest release of that iodine almost

 

579

00:37:10.160 –> 00:37:13.720

immediately. So we tested at kind of varying times and we,

 

580

00:37:13.720 –> 00:37:15.400

and we continued the testing over time,

 

581

00:37:15.900 –> 00:37:20.160

but we did see that biggest iodine release kind of immediately. Um,

 

582

00:37:20.460 –> 00:37:25.200

and so that does feed into, um, the time that you’d put it in a wash water. So,

 

583

00:37:25.260 –> 00:37:27.760

so I do think that it would be pretty effective.

 

584

00:37:37.260 –> 00:37:41.210

Great. Thank you. Um, Adrian, you are raising your hand.

 

585

00:37:41.210 –> 00:37:42.690

Would you like to come off mute and ask a question?

 

586

00:37:44.130 –> 00:37:46.590

Hi. Um, I’m just wondering, uh,

 

587

00:37:46.590 –> 00:37:51.190

whether you have a priority in your mind regarding, uh, you know, the,

 

588

00:37:51.190 –> 00:37:54.710

the concentration of sodium or the, um,

 

589

00:37:55.590 –> 00:37:56.423

concentration of iodine.

 

590

00:37:56.550 –> 00:38:00.030

’cause obviously you’re using slightly different treatments in terms of salt,

 

591

00:38:00.410 –> 00:38:02.790

uh, you know, diff the different starting points.

 

592

00:38:02.970 –> 00:38:05.430

So did you have a process in mind how that would work?

 

593

00:38:05.640 –> 00:38:09.750

Would you remove salt first and then, uh, move to the,

 

594

00:38:09.770 –> 00:38:12.350

the iodine or iodine first and then move to the salt?

 

595

00:38:15.270 –> 00:38:16.370

For, for me, um,

 

596

00:38:16.550 –> 00:38:20.130

the ideal solution would be to find something that works for both at the same

 

597

00:38:20.130 –> 00:38:23.210

time. Um, right. I, I think it would be, I,

 

598

00:38:23.290 –> 00:38:27.570

I think it would start to get kind of too processed if we had to use,

 

599

00:38:28.340 –> 00:38:31.410

let’s for say, for example, p a a to get the iodine out,

 

600

00:38:31.410 –> 00:38:34.810

and then we had to use a step down method of salt concentration to,

 

601

00:38:34.830 –> 00:38:38.960

to help pull salt out, um, or something else active. Um,

 

602

00:38:39.470 –> 00:38:43.440

obviously that might be necessary to really get a fresh product at the end of

 

603

00:38:43.440 –> 00:38:43.640

the day.

 

604

00:38:43.640 –> 00:38:47.720

But the ideal solution in my mind would be finding something that kind of does

 

605

00:38:47.720 –> 00:38:49.320

it all at once, um, right,

 

606

00:38:49.320 –> 00:38:54.200

without kind of affecting too much the rigidity or pulling too many nutrients

 

607

00:38:54.200 –> 00:38:58.720

out of the product. Because, you know, our theory on this and, um,

 

608

00:38:58.820 –> 00:39:01.360

the reason that we tested what we did was that we were trying to find,

 

609

00:39:01.360 –> 00:39:02.800

like Sam mentioned, um,

 

610

00:39:03.150 –> 00:39:06.080

kind of minimally processed type of product that we could,

 

611

00:39:06.080 –> 00:39:08.640

that you could do really simply kind of at a processor. Um,

 

612

00:39:09.300 –> 00:39:13.480

and we did find some, some, some effect and some pulling out, but I,

 

613

00:39:13.520 –> 00:39:15.800

I don’t think it was enough. Um, the,

 

614

00:39:15.980 –> 00:39:18.320

the p a a did have a very fascinating effect,

 

615

00:39:18.400 –> 00:39:22.240

I thought on the iodine release because there was a lot of it coming out. It,

 

616

00:39:22.300 –> 00:39:25.800

it was really the only one that I could pull that I got iodine out. Um,

 

617

00:39:26.180 –> 00:39:30.730

and also the seaweed had a, uh, the bio load on it I think was really,

 

618

00:39:30.730 –> 00:39:35.090

really high. Um, it, it really rapidly depleted our ozone, for example, in,

 

619

00:39:35.090 –> 00:39:36.250

in the containers that we tested.

 

620

00:39:36.750 –> 00:39:40.890

And so there’s also kind of a bio load combination that you kind of need to,

 

621

00:39:41.190 –> 00:39:45.090

you need to oxidize the product, you need to force it to release, um,

 

622

00:39:45.090 –> 00:39:48.690

some salt and semi iodine while at the same time not over oxidizing it and

 

623

00:39:48.690 –> 00:39:50.890

making it release everything. Um, and,

 

624

00:39:50.890 –> 00:39:52.730

and kind of turning to mush at the end of the day.

 

625

00:39:52.830 –> 00:39:54.650

And so when we did that testing,

 

626

00:39:54.790 –> 00:39:58.170

we didn’t kind of follow that through to shelf life. Um,

 

627

00:39:58.590 –> 00:40:02.850

but based off of what I saw, I I think the methods that we tested, um,

 

628

00:40:03.250 –> 00:40:08.130

wouldn’t really render it, uh, in a not fresh product that it, it’s, it,

 

629

00:40:08.130 –> 00:40:11.410

it was acting kind of exactly like a fresh product still after we got done with

 

630

00:40:11.410 –> 00:40:15.010

it, which was really cool. Um, but I don’t think it did enough. And,

 

631

00:40:15.030 –> 00:40:18.010

and so it’s finding that happy medium. So if you look at,

 

632

00:40:18.590 –> 00:40:22.450

if you compare kelp to I think kind of any other fruit or veg, I,

 

633

00:40:22.490 –> 00:40:23.450

I call it the prestige.

 

634

00:40:23.450 –> 00:40:25.650

There’s a magic trick to every single one of these things.

 

635

00:40:25.990 –> 00:40:28.810

And once you hit the right magic trick, it works almost every time.

 

636

00:40:28.950 –> 00:40:33.570

And what I mean by that is there’s kind of a proper storage temp and humidity

 

637

00:40:34.070 –> 00:40:38.730

and processing, um, that render it a fresh product at the end of the day.

 

638

00:40:39.030 –> 00:40:43.210

And once you find kind of the correct, um, avenues and the correct test to do,

 

639

00:40:43.600 –> 00:40:47.410

they, they work like pretty much every time as long as, um, the,

 

640

00:40:47.470 –> 00:40:51.370

the starting kelp is at kind of a certain level, um, of quality.

 

641

00:40:52.030 –> 00:40:56.570

And so the goal would be to find that kind of goldilock zone, I call it. Um,

 

642

00:40:56.590 –> 00:41:01.290

trying to find the, the right test to release enough without making it too,

 

643

00:41:01.590 –> 00:41:04.890

um, without, you know, pulling out nutritional values and,

 

644

00:41:04.890 –> 00:41:06.770

and other pro problems down the line.

 

645

00:41:12.940 –> 00:41:17.170

Awesome. Thank you Eric. Um, Michael asked,

 

646

00:41:17.350 –> 00:41:21.450

did we look at what other minerals and nutrients we lost as a result of the

 

647

00:41:21.450 –> 00:41:25.170

various, uh, water dips? We did not. That is, uh,

 

648

00:41:25.360 –> 00:41:28.990

Yeah, that, unfortunately that wasn’t a part of this, unfortunately. Yeah,

 

649

00:41:29.210 –> 00:41:32.350

it wasn’t a part of this study design, but we, we have, and,

 

650

00:41:32.350 –> 00:41:34.760

and I don’t know know, Sam, what you’ve shared or what you’ve put together,

 

651

00:41:34.780 –> 00:41:38.240

but we have done a pretty comprehensive lit search and did kind of find,

 

652

00:41:38.780 –> 00:41:39.800

you know, your calciums,

 

653

00:41:39.800 –> 00:41:43.200

your irons were the first to kind of come out along with, um,

 

654

00:41:43.300 –> 00:41:45.800

the rest of kind of salt, for example. Um,

 

655

00:41:46.580 –> 00:41:50.440

and then following some truity and some other problems. So we are aware of it,

 

656

00:41:50.460 –> 00:41:52.080

but we didn’t test it as a part of this.

 

657

00:41:57.100 –> 00:42:00.940

I had a few internet connections at, uh, problems at the end of that, but no,

 

658

00:42:00.940 –> 00:42:01.773

thank you.

 

659

00:42:08.760 –> 00:42:13.540

Um, Mike, you’d ask about whether the blistering, uh, is,

 

660

00:42:13.560 –> 00:42:15.140

you said it’s aesthetically displeasing,

 

661

00:42:15.140 –> 00:42:18.900

but if the kelp is grounded to a powder, does it matter? I would say the,

 

662

00:42:19.080 –> 00:42:23.780

the answer to that is we don’t know. Basically, you know, we, or the,

 

663

00:42:23.840 –> 00:42:28.740

the suggestion that folks look at the nutrients before blistering and after

 

664

00:42:28.740 –> 00:42:31.020

blistering, we don’t really have a great sense of what,

 

665

00:42:31.530 –> 00:42:35.140

what else is happening as the blistering occurs. It’s clearly a,

 

666

00:42:35.220 –> 00:42:38.180

a stress response, but it is,

 

667

00:42:38.360 –> 00:42:41.740

is it releasing nutrients or otherwise degrading?

 

668

00:42:42.570 –> 00:42:46.660

Does blistered kelp have a lower shelf life than

 

669

00:42:47.800 –> 00:42:50.860

un blistered kelp? We don’t have the answer to those things. So I think I would,

 

670

00:42:51.920 –> 00:42:52.753

um,

 

671

00:42:52.790 –> 00:42:56.340

wanna do a little bit more research just before I said definitively whether it

 

672

00:42:56.340 –> 00:42:58.380

does or doesn’t have a longer term impact.

 

673

00:43:01.120 –> 00:43:04.340

Uh, this is Eric. I turned my video off. Hopefully you guys can hear me better.

 

674

00:43:04.680 –> 00:43:05.513

Um,

 

675

00:43:05.600 –> 00:43:09.850

my guess would be it probably once you kind of grind it up,

 

676

00:43:09.910 –> 00:43:13.490

my guess would be it wouldn’t be that much different. Um, the, the,

 

677

00:43:13.510 –> 00:43:18.050

the kind of blistering in the stress response we found seemed to be the seaweed

 

678

00:43:18.050 –> 00:43:21.330

trying to hold onto its nutrients and its moisture, um,

 

679

00:43:21.500 –> 00:43:26.050

while it was basically being abused. And, and, um, if you compare that,

 

680

00:43:26.230 –> 00:43:29.930

for example, to something like powdered spinach, powdered spinach, um,

 

681

00:43:30.080 –> 00:43:33.210

once you get it into a powdered form and kind of takes care of a lot of the

 

682

00:43:33.210 –> 00:43:36.570

problems that the spinach has, so they, they kind of feed, for example,

 

683

00:43:36.940 –> 00:43:41.370

heavy mildew products will go towards powdering, um, and, uh,

 

684

00:43:41.370 –> 00:43:44.810

heavy insect pressure will go towards powders and,

 

685

00:43:44.870 –> 00:43:49.570

and with pretty minimal effect on nutritional. Um, at the end of the day, um,

 

686

00:43:50.230 –> 00:43:54.290

the way I like to think about it is that the plant at the end, uh,

 

687

00:43:54.550 –> 00:43:57.810

is trying to hold onto everything it can. It’s trying to stay alive,

 

688

00:43:57.920 –> 00:44:00.690

it’s trying to continue its processes as best as possible,

 

689

00:44:01.510 –> 00:44:06.490

and it has a shocking kind of level of being able to do that through a lot

 

690

00:44:06.490 –> 00:44:10.290

of different stressors. And so my guess would be, it would be pretty minimal,

 

691

00:44:10.350 –> 00:44:11.930

but it would be, it would need to be tested.

 

692

00:44:16.930 –> 00:44:17.763

Thank you,

 

693

00:44:21.350 –> 00:44:24.000

Mike, you, uh, have asked about freezing.

 

694

00:44:24.180 –> 00:44:27.960

We did not look at freezing at all as part of this, uh, study,

 

695

00:44:28.180 –> 00:44:31.040

but that is actually a great segue to talking about,

 

696

00:44:31.040 –> 00:44:34.440

about our next farmer forum. Um,

 

697

00:44:35.670 –> 00:44:36.550

I guess I’ll, let me,

 

698

00:44:36.650 –> 00:44:40.470

let me pause and just ask if there are any other questions before we move

 

699

00:44:42.040 –> 00:44:44.200

wrapping up. We are still, we still have plenty of time,

 

700

00:44:44.520 –> 00:44:46.120

14 minutes if anyone else have any questions.

 

701

00:44:54.720 –> 00:44:59.210

This is, uh, Eric from Q Fresh again, i, I just wanna, um, put it in context.

 

702

00:44:59.590 –> 00:45:03.330

So for anyone that wasn’t on the call that Sam mentioned last year,

 

703

00:45:03.400 –> 00:45:05.170

what we did last year with, um,

 

704

00:45:05.280 –> 00:45:08.530

with Kelp was that we looked at the fresh aspects of kelp.

 

705

00:45:08.870 –> 00:45:11.930

And so we took kelp that was harvested on the East coast,

 

706

00:45:12.310 –> 00:45:14.530

and we looked at respiration rates.

 

707

00:45:14.550 –> 00:45:18.410

So we looked at that several different times throughout the season and kind of

 

708

00:45:18.410 –> 00:45:20.290

how the product did in packaging.

 

709

00:45:20.550 –> 00:45:23.930

And then we also did some kind of rudimentary shelf life studies inside of

 

710

00:45:23.930 –> 00:45:28.090

packaging, basically seeing, hey, does kelp act like, uh,

 

711

00:45:28.190 –> 00:45:31.330

fruits and vegetables or, or, or does it act completely independently?

 

712

00:45:31.910 –> 00:45:36.690

And what we found and what led to the research that we did this year was

 

713

00:45:36.690 –> 00:45:41.650

that it had a phenomenal shelf life in, in a modified atmosphere package, um,

 

714

00:45:42.410 –> 00:45:44.370

14 plus days of shelf life in a,

 

715

00:45:44.370 –> 00:45:49.130

in a package at kind of typical cold chain that you would look at for like a bag

 

716

00:45:49.130 –> 00:45:53.090

spinach. And, and so that’s what led into the, the studies that we did on this.

 

717

00:45:53.510 –> 00:45:57.730

And, um, I, I think Sam has that available, um, to share,

 

718

00:45:58.230 –> 00:46:03.210

but I think pretty remarkable results on the shelf life side. And so to me it’s,

 

719

00:46:03.240 –> 00:46:06.330

it’s figuring out can we lower the salt, can we lower the iodine?

 

720

00:46:06.390 –> 00:46:11.090

Can we get some of the biofouling out while still keeping it in that good shelf

 

721

00:46:11.090 –> 00:46:14.170

life form that we found without doing any of that processing?

 

722

00:46:14.350 –> 00:46:18.170

That’s kind of the end goal for me to understand. And so, um,

 

723

00:46:18.240 –> 00:46:21.650

that was some of the research that we did last year that kind of fed into to

 

724

00:46:21.650 –> 00:46:22.483

what we did this year.

 

725

00:46:26.810 –> 00:46:30.180

Thanks, Eric. That’s great context. Um, Evie,

 

726

00:46:32.500 –> 00:46:34.950

Yeah, thanks Sam. I just wanted to, um,

 

727

00:46:35.420 –> 00:46:39.270

respond to Mike’s question about freezing. We have, um,

 

728

00:46:39.650 –> 00:46:43.270

frozen kelp as a way to, um,

 

729

00:46:43.740 –> 00:46:47.910

suspend the freshness before drawing it for the last two seasons.

 

730

00:46:48.370 –> 00:46:52.960

And what we found is, um, in terms of the,

 

731

00:46:54.300 –> 00:46:59.080

the qualities that we can see, we haven’t tested nutrient difference between,

 

732

00:46:59.620 –> 00:47:04.440

um, directly dried kelp versus frozen, then dried kelp. Um,

 

733

00:47:04.580 –> 00:47:09.320

but in terms of the other qualities of smell, taste, appearance,

 

734

00:47:09.500 –> 00:47:13.800

um, we don’t see, um, a big difference.

 

735

00:47:14.060 –> 00:47:16.800

We don’t see a difference in the kelp that we’ve frozen.

 

736

00:47:17.270 –> 00:47:21.840

What I will say is that it’s more difficult to handle, um, once it’s frozen,

 

737

00:47:21.980 –> 00:47:23.720

it comes, once it’s thawed, it’s,

 

738

00:47:23.750 –> 00:47:28.520

it’s more stuck together and it’s a little bit, um, more difficult to get into,

 

739

00:47:28.820 –> 00:47:33.120

um, the dryer and take the next step.

 

740

00:47:36.850 –> 00:47:41.340

Okay, thank you for that. Mm-hmm. Sam,

 

741

00:47:41.420 –> 00:47:42.253

I got one more.

 

742

00:47:43.640 –> 00:47:44.330

Go ahead.

 

743

00:47:44.330 –> 00:47:47.100

Yeah, I think you covered all the steps, but could you maybe recap,

 

744

00:47:47.240 –> 00:47:51.540

so if I wanna save a small portion of my, um, harvest for,

 

745

00:47:51.960 –> 00:47:55.620

to set for, to be fresh and to deliver to restaurants,

 

746

00:47:56.570 –> 00:47:59.340

what would that process look like in terms of, you know,

 

747

00:47:59.340 –> 00:48:02.020

harvesting blanching or otherwise, um,

 

748

00:48:03.300 –> 00:48:06.500

stabilizing and then packaging such that, you know,

 

749

00:48:06.520 –> 00:48:10.980

it would last a couple of days until I can get it there or while they use it.

 

750

00:48:11.980 –> 00:48:15.200

Can, is that a easy, is that fairly easy to kind of recap that?

 

751

00:48:16.660 –> 00:48:21.110

Yeah. Um, this is not intended to be a start to finish process,

 

752

00:48:21.290 –> 00:48:25.150

but we can kind of use it to, to, to talk through. Um,

 

753

00:48:26.140 –> 00:48:26.973

yeah, so,

 

754

00:48:29.040 –> 00:48:32.860

so first and foremost, you know,

 

755

00:48:32.920 –> 00:48:37.820

if you’re selling it for food, you, you do need to have a, um,

 

756

00:48:38.820 –> 00:48:41.700

a, a plan for how you’re gonna keep that food safe the whole time. And again,

 

757

00:48:41.760 –> 00:48:44.020

sea Grant has a ton of great resources and Michael,

 

758

00:48:44.140 –> 00:48:46.500

I see that if you’re still on and if you wanna drop,

 

759

00:48:46.960 –> 00:48:49.980

you wanna drop anything in the chat about this Sea Grants resources on the food

 

760

00:48:49.980 –> 00:48:53.540

safety side, that would be awesome. Um, there, there, you know,

 

761

00:48:53.560 –> 00:48:56.300

you will need to keep it clean, keep everything on your boat clean, you know,

 

762

00:48:56.300 –> 00:48:59.300

have a plan for how that’s all gonna be handled, same, same as you would with,

 

763

00:48:59.300 –> 00:49:01.740

with shellfish or any other kind of food. Um,

 

764

00:49:04.200 –> 00:49:08.540

the, uh, you know, as far as the physical handling goes,

 

765

00:49:08.640 –> 00:49:13.100

you’re gonna wanna harvest on these days with, with cooler air temperatures,

 

766

00:49:13.170 –> 00:49:16.740

prevent direct sunlight, contact fresh water contact,

 

767

00:49:17.000 –> 00:49:21.660

and try to keep the kelp fluffy. That is not a technical term. That is,

 

768

00:49:22.010 –> 00:49:25.780

that is what everyone in the industry agrees. And, and as we’ve just seen,

 

769

00:49:25.850 –> 00:49:28.980

it’s about, it’s about that ventilation, that access to air.

 

770

00:49:29.040 –> 00:49:33.700

So you’re gonna wanna keep it with access to air as much as possible. Um,

 

771

00:49:33.880 –> 00:49:38.060

so that means ventilated storage containers, perforated plastic bags,

 

772

00:49:39.320 –> 00:49:42.500

um, perforated bins with a plastic shroud with little holes punched in it,

 

773

00:49:42.740 –> 00:49:46.620

whatever. But it’s gotta be this like sweet spot of cold

 

774

00:49:52.320 –> 00:49:56.730

sitting, standing water, definitely not standing. Um, and,

 

775

00:49:56.750 –> 00:49:59.010

and that’s really it. Like, you know, there,

 

776

00:49:59.010 –> 00:50:03.170

there is not that much as a raw agricultural product that you need to do other

 

777

00:50:03.170 –> 00:50:06.410

than keeping it cold and keeping it clean. Um,

 

778

00:50:06.710 –> 00:50:11.190

in terms of getting it directly to, to chefs,

 

779

00:50:11.690 –> 00:50:14.230

um, you know, there, uh,

 

780

00:50:14.730 –> 00:50:17.390

are some food safety considerations around, you know,

 

781

00:50:17.390 –> 00:50:19.830

making sure people know that, that it,

 

782

00:50:19.860 –> 00:50:23.390

that it is raw and that they may wanna cook it. Um, but

 

783

00:50:25.100 –> 00:50:28.240

it, it is not a complicated, a complicated process.

 

784

00:50:31.200 –> 00:50:33.410

Okay, thank you. Michael, I don’t know if you, is Michael still on?

 

785

00:50:33.410 –> 00:50:34.330

Does he wanna say anything else?

 

786

00:50:35.380 –> 00:50:37.280

Uh, sure I can chime in.

 

787

00:50:37.360 –> 00:50:41.280

I did put a link to the seaweed resources that we have through New York Sea

 

788

00:50:41.280 –> 00:50:42.760

Grant. You can also find a bunch of others,

 

789

00:50:42.860 –> 00:50:47.240

not necessarily all safety specific on the Seaweed Hub website. Um,

 

790

00:50:47.940 –> 00:50:51.040

but we’ve been doing a lot of work on better understanding the regulatory

 

791

00:50:51.040 –> 00:50:54.640

framework around bringing seaweeds to market and as well as understanding the

 

792

00:50:54.640 –> 00:50:58.960

hazards associated with those and the controls so that the emerging industry can

 

793

00:50:58.960 –> 00:51:02.400

effectively develop food safety plans to address the various, um,

 

794

00:51:02.430 –> 00:51:04.200

hazards associated with seaweeds.

 

795

00:51:04.680 –> 00:51:08.160

I think the biggest sticking point has been the environmental chemicals, um,

 

796

00:51:08.160 –> 00:51:11.520

because there aren’t standards in place, understand what are the thresholds,

 

797

00:51:11.520 –> 00:51:15.600

what should we be testing for, how much should we be testing for? Uh,

 

798

00:51:15.600 –> 00:51:18.720

we did just put out one, uh, a guides specific for New York,

 

799

00:51:18.920 –> 00:51:21.600

although it might be relevant outside of New York. You’ll just have to look, uh,

 

800

00:51:21.600 –> 00:51:26.360

work with your agencies to determine what particular chemicals are of

 

801

00:51:26.960 –> 00:51:31.440

relevance in your waters, um, because it’s not the same from place to place. Um,

 

802

00:51:31.500 –> 00:51:35.160

but some of the more general ones were taken from kind of a global analysis of

 

803

00:51:35.160 –> 00:51:35.560

what are the,

 

804

00:51:35.560 –> 00:51:39.480

the major food safety hazards that have been associated with seaweeds. Um,

 

805

00:51:40.020 –> 00:51:42.760

you know, and I think it does need to remain on your minds. ’cause the,

 

806

00:51:42.760 –> 00:51:45.000

the big thing is that you’re, you’re talking about quality,

 

807

00:51:45.060 –> 00:51:47.440

but it’s not a quality product if it’s not safe to eat.

 

808

00:51:47.580 –> 00:51:51.120

So safety and quality are really kind of tied in there and linked. Um,

 

809

00:51:51.180 –> 00:51:52.360

so making sure that you’re,

 

810

00:51:52.360 –> 00:51:55.720

you’re keeping that in mind and understanding that you’re working with a food,

 

811

00:51:55.980 –> 00:51:58.440

um, when you’re harvesting and handling these products.

 

812

00:52:04.050 –> 00:52:05.760

Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it.

 

813

00:52:09.970 –> 00:52:13.020

Okay, well thank you for all the awesome questions, guys.

 

814

00:52:13.020 –> 00:52:17.020

That was really great and all the chiming in of other folks to answer it.

 

815

00:52:17.020 –> 00:52:21.740

This is exactly what we hoped farmer forums would be like. So appreciate it.

 

816

00:52:22.600 –> 00:52:27.380

Um, so speaking of freezing, our next, uh,

 

817

00:52:27.460 –> 00:52:30.780

farmer forum is going to be November 9th, and

 

818

00:52:31.470 –> 00:52:33.740

We’re gonna be talking about

 

819

00:52:34.820 –> 00:52:39.020

Stabilization. Uh, and so we’re gonna talk about current and emerging methods,

 

820

00:52:39.480 –> 00:52:41.020

um, uh, to talk about freezing.

 

821

00:52:41.480 –> 00:52:44.820

And if there is anyone who knows about freezing at scale, it is, it is them,

 

822

00:52:44.820 –> 00:52:47.460

that is their, the, the primary way that they,

 

823

00:52:47.600 –> 00:52:50.660

the first thing that they do before getting into any of their other processing.

 

824

00:52:51.160 –> 00:52:53.900

Um, we’re also gonna have folks talking about drying, um,

 

825

00:52:54.640 –> 00:52:57.340

and then some emerging methods like chemical stabilization.

 

826

00:52:58.240 –> 00:53:01.940

And then the last farmer form of the year is about producer cooperatives,

 

827

00:53:01.940 –> 00:53:06.100

and that will be on December 14th. Um, in, as we head into 2024,

 

828

00:53:06.100 –> 00:53:08.500

we’re going to get, be getting back into the water. Um,

 

829

00:53:08.500 –> 00:53:11.700

our director of training and support, Lindsay Olsson will be back at that point.

 

830

00:53:11.800 –> 00:53:13.020

And we will be, uh,

 

831

00:53:13.050 –> 00:53:17.800

getting into nitty gritty details about farming and then,

 

832

00:53:18.220 –> 00:53:22.600

um, harvesting as we head into the spring. And I did also wanna call out,

 

833

00:53:22.840 –> 00:53:26.600

especially because today’s topic with a little bit of a crossover topic between

 

834

00:53:26.600 –> 00:53:28.800

farming and, and post harvest

 

835

00:53:30.660 –> 00:53:31.760

and processing,

 

836

00:53:32.510 –> 00:53:37.280

that we are launching a new series in 2024 that

 

837

00:53:37.380 –> 00:53:41.640

is for folks who are about, uh, you know,

 

838

00:53:41.640 –> 00:53:46.400

everything from product development to marketing products. And, um,

 

839

00:53:46.980 –> 00:53:49.680

we really hope that some of you will come check out this series as well.

 

840

00:53:49.740 –> 00:53:52.640

It starts in February and runs through August.

 

841

00:53:55.000 –> 00:53:59.200

And that’s it. So thank you everyone for coming and, uh,

 

842

00:53:59.200 –> 00:54:03.720

we hope to see you on the Hub and at our future webinars.

 

843

00:54:03.720 –> 00:54:04.553

Thank you so much.

 

844

00:54:05.510 –> 00:54:07.470

Thanks, Adam. Thank you.

 

845

00:54:09.900 –> 00:54:10.370

Thank you.