Optimal Post-Harvest Handling & Storage | Farmer Forum

Recorded on January 26, 2023
This webinar explores critical post-harvest handling practices that preserve kelp quality after harvest. GreenWave’s Sam Garwin, Director of Market Development, alongside produce packaging experts Jeff Brandenburg and Eric Vandercook, discuss the science of kelp respiration, storage container options, and packaging innovations. The conversation covers the findings about sugar kelp’s 14-day potential shelf life when properly handled, while emphasizing that post-harvest handling directly determines possible end uses for harvested kelp.
Chapters
00:00 – Introduction and Post-Harvest Concepts
Sam Garwin introduces key concepts about post-harvest handling, quality indicators, and best practices
12:40 – Kelp Respiration Research
Explanation of how kelp “breathes” after harvest and findings from respiration rate studies
20:21 – Storage Container Study Results
Findings on different storage containers and their impact on kelp quality
28:39 – Modified Atmosphere Packaging
Specialized packaging solutions for extending fresh kelp shelf life
35:59 – Expert Q&A Session
Brandenburg and Vandercook answer farmer questions about handling temperature, container options, and quality preservation.
Transcript

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encourage you to either

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we encourage you to either raise your

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hand or to put

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a question in the Q&amp;A function

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at the bottom of the bottom of the call, and

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I'm going to work on trying to get you chat functionality as well.

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And so with that I am going I think we asked

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everyone to want to ask everyone to introduce themselves, but

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I don't think about capability at the moment. So we'll

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we'll do that a little bit later in the call. And in

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the meantime, I will kick it over to Sam.

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Awesome. Thank you Lindsey. I'm Sam

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Garen director of Market development at greenwave. And

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I apologize. My sound was not working for a few

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seconds there. So I don't know if Lindsay said anything about me but as director

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of Market development, I'm responsible for

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thinking about everything that happens after the kelp comes out of

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the water which doesn't include post Harvest handling but also things

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like value chain coordination sales and

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marketing of kelp and that sort

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of thing and we are joined today

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by two experts in a produce

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packaging who worked with us on the studies

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that we're about to show share with you. They are Jeff Brandenburg

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and Eric Vandercook and you will have an

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opportunity to ask them questions a little bit later on.

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So our agenda today, we're going to be going over

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some key Concepts when it comes to post Harvest handling and quality.

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We are going to talk about some existing handling and

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storage best practices and then dive

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into our research. We did two different studies over the

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course of the last two years and then

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we're going to talk about some upcoming research and of course leave plenty of times for

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discussion.

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So to kick us off with the concepts, what

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is post-harvest handling? We this

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is not something that is unique to CBD

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post Harvest handling is a stage of agricultural production.

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It is a stage immediately following

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Harvest and this includes Transportation cooling

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cleaning sorting packing anything

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that's in that limbo State between when CV comes

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out of the water and where when it gets into some form

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of stabilized stabilization, whether

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that's packaging or freezing or

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whatever it is you're going to do to it and this is

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really the most important period of time to preserve quality

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again, not just for seaweed but for anything

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from grains to milk to meet this

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is what really really determines the possible end

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uses for your product. You can never add

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quality you can only preserve it.

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And so that's what this that's why this post Harvest handling stage is really

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really important.

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Going one level deeper in this presentation. We're

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going to be talking about quality shelf life

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and a little bit about food safety. Although food

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safety is really not the focus of this presentation. That is

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an area in which sea Grant has covering extremely thoroughly and

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will point you to some resources there that you can

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look at with more if you want to get into more detail on

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food safety, but let's start with shelf life

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here the middle one. So shelf life is the length of

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time during which a product any food product

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remains desirable and in direct shelf

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life testing products are stored under conditions similar to

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those that they will actually face in real life and monitored over

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regular intervals for signs of deterioration. A product

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save. The shelf life is not a guarantee, but rather a statement

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of high likelihood that a product

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will mean will remain usable for the time indicated under

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typical supply chain conditions.

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And the expected shelf life has implications for

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upstream or Downstream rather supply chain logistics. For

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example, if a product total shelf life is 14 days

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and a given retailer requires a shelf life of 10

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days minimum. That means that the product needs to be received by

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the retailer within four days of production, which depending on where your

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product is coming from could be pretty challenging.

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And shelf life is not the same thing as food safety though.

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The two concepts are related. So food safety refers

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to practices that prevent contamination pathogen pathogen

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growth and spoilage that can cause illness in humans

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and a product that has gone beyond its

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expected shelf life is likely not in an

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optimal state of quality, but it may still be physical physically safe

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to consume in contrast. If

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the handling of a product has violated food safety

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best practices, it is not safe to consume regardless

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of whether or not it might look good or whether

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it is within its technical stated shelf

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life because it has been abused and so you shouldn't be

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consuming that

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So our Focus here is really on Commercial considerations

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of shelf life and quality rather

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than food safety, and we're

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going to dive a little bit deeper into what we mean by quality. The

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short definition is measurable standards

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to sort and grade seaweed.

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What does that even mean? What are these measurable standards? We

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are talking about.

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The industry really has yet to

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arrive at a mutually agreed upon set of Standards, but most

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large processors have developed some

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internal quality guidelines, which they use to

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decide which CB that they receive is going

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to which purposes and some of the time this is going to be tied to

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different pricing tiers and we've listed

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out some things here that are specific indicators that

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real buyers today are using when evaluating seaweed

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quality a lot of these are visual

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so like color surface moisture appearance and

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texture all of that you get just by looking at the seaweed,

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but then there's also odor like does it

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smell like nothing does it smell vegetable? Does it

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stink? There's also temperature. So

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you're gonna see in these studies. We looked a lot at whether

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containers of seaweed. We're

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able to cool quickly or even whether he got

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started to be generated from chemical properties

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or chemical processes rather.

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That were happening to the seaweed as it sat there.

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And then there's also sound so if fermentation

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occurs in a pile

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of seaweed, basically you will be able

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to hear it because it will be bubbling you have to get quiet you

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have to listen for it. So these are all indicators of quality and

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any one of these can be taken as an indication

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of deterioration.

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There are also some quality considerations that have nothing to

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do with the kelp itself. But all they're all about how it

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is handled and this is by no means an exhaustive list, but bios

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buyers might also be looking for bio-fouling. So

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like organisms that are in the ocean that end up on the kelp.

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Debris seed string is a really common one,

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but there can also be bits of plastic from baskets or

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you know, I saw a

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picture of one buyer found a penny in their

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seaweed. So any number of things can get in there including

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sediment buyers might also care about the size

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about of the blades or the stipes. They

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might be looking for you to trim or sort your CV to

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spec and then they could be looking for tests and cold chain documentation. And

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we have a lot of plans to work with

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industry stakeholders to Define which of these markets are most critical

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to and products quality, but it's useful to

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know from the start that these are some additional considerations.

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When it comes to existing best practices, we're broken

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it down into two areas Harvest and storage and

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these are kind of combinations of quality

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and food safety considerations.

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For the Harvest we obviously want to keep everything clean and sterile anything

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that is going to come into contact with the kelp which on

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a boat could be a lot of things. We want to make sure that those

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are clean. We want to avoid that

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biofile as much as possible taking care not to cut the seed string.

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We really don't want to come pack the kelp and

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this is it's actually interesting. This is the best practice because this is one of

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the things that are our findings was

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looking or sorry. Our studies was looking to validate was why? Why

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don't we want to compact that? Kelp?

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And then of course we want to protect that

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kelp from extreme temperatures, but also from dirt for an

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objects direct sunlight and fresh water all of which can impact

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those quality measurements that

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we listed on the earlier slide.

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Once kelp is put into storage. We

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want to get it cool as quickly as possible. Ideally within eight

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hours of harvest but the sooner the better and we want to monitor that

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temperature throughout storage and you can either do that yourself a

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couple times a day or there are temperature loggers, which

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we will refer to later. We're

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happy to send your resources on those that you can stick inside the containers and

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you can get a measurement as you

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know, continuously as the kelp isn't

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storage.

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We want to be keeping seaweed moist but not wet.

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Similar to the compacting the help we do not want to cut off access to

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our entirely and we want to process that kelp ideally within

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48 hours.

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And these best practices as well as many

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others are documented in these really really excellent resources produced by

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seagrant as well as the ocean-approved. Kelp Marvin kelp

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farming manual and we strongly recommend checking out those resources

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and continuing to check back as secret continues

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to do some really important work around food safety.

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So

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and

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getting into our research here.

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We can also pause and see if there's any questions on any of

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that. Shall we pause?

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Yeah, sure there haven't been any questions that comment folks

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the chat is open now and feel free to put

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questions in the chat or in the Q&amp;A function. I'll be

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monitoring both and if you want to ask the question, you can raise your hand

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and we'll let you please speak.

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awesome

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Okay, we will continue on.

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All right. So over the last couple of years we did

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two different studies. Both of them were related

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to kelp quality and shelf life. These were

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pilot scale commercial research

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projects and by that,

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I mean that these were not rigorous scientific

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studies. We had a pretty small sample size wasn't replicated

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as many times as you normally would like in a proper R&amp;D setting

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and in 2023 and Beyond we're looking

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to move away from doing as much R&amp;D ourself in favor

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of commercial pilots and partnership with R&amp;D Partners. However,

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we hope that this work contributes to a body

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of knowledge in the broader kelp community and that

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the academic Community can can build on these findings in

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years to come.

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But the projects were a few

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things. The first was that we wanted to investigate the

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respiration rate of kelp. We'll talk about what respiration rate

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is in a second. And we also wanted to look at the impact of

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storage containers different types of storage containers on

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shelf life.

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Using the findings from that we wanted to design packaging specifically

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for fresh sugar. Kelp and then we also

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wanted to think about how does sugar kelp compare to standards that

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exist for produce? Because if

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we are considering kelp in in the food space that

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is what a lot of people think of as a

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similar product on the market.

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Okay. So what is a respiration rate when

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we buy fruits and vegetables

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from the Farmers Market at the grocery store? We have an implicit understanding

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that they are in some way still alive. So

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they're no longer touched to the plant and if

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we keep them around long enough, they eventually begin to

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die but in the period between when the produce is

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harvested and when it dies it that

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is when we eat it and that product has

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metabolic reactions happening

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within it. So specifically the tissues

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that once performed photosynthesis. So using

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sunlight to synthesize nutrients and oxygen

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from carbon dioxide and water switches to respiration

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and respiration is the same

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exact activity that humans and all other

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animals are performing day in and out. It's also known as

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breathing so your kelp

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was in the water it was it was photosynthesizing comes out

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of the water starts to breathe.

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kind of crazy to think about but in respiration sugar

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glucose is combined with oxygen and

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transformed into carbon dioxide water and heat

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00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.500
and when respiration ends

251
00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:56.600
and this organism dies and that

252
00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.300
happens when all the glucose in

253
00:12:58.300 --> 00:13:01.300
the tissues has been used up and it is

254
00:13:01.300 --> 00:13:03.400
impossible to increase the amount of glucose in

255
00:13:04.400 --> 00:13:08.000
That organism that is no longer performing photosynthesis. So

256
00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:10.200
the only thing you can do to slow down that

257
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:14.000
process of dying essentially is

258
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.200
to control the speed or the rate of

259
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.500
respiration. So a respiration rate is the is the

260
00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:22.200
speed at which all that glucose is being used up and your

261
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.000
kelp is going from being

262
00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:26.600
kind of alive to being

263
00:13:27.500 --> 00:13:27.900
dead

264
00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.300
and the slower respiration happens the more

265
00:13:31.300 --> 00:13:32.100
time you have.

266
00:13:33.300 --> 00:13:36.800
To for the for in that kind of limbo land.

267
00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.100
So why do we care about respiration rate when it comes

268
00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.300
to extending food quality we want to keep respiration rates as

269
00:13:46.300 --> 00:13:49.700
low as possible without killing the product. So again,

270
00:13:49.700 --> 00:13:52.400
we can't control the glucose. So we have to control these

271
00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:55.400
other aspects of respiration the things that contribute

272
00:13:55.400 --> 00:13:58.100
to the respiration rate and a big one here in the

273
00:13:58.100 --> 00:14:01.600
one that we are really focused on for these studies is access to oxygen but

274
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.000
other things that affect the respiration rate can be damaged to

275
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:08.800
the tissue so physical abuse temperature abuse

276
00:14:08.800 --> 00:14:11.800
or even things like light exposure and all

277
00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:14.400
of this stuff is relevant to storage conditions for

278
00:14:14.400 --> 00:14:17.500
any Market, but this is also relevant for the high-end fresh

279
00:14:17.500 --> 00:14:19.700
food service or retail markets.

280
00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:25.800
So the first study that we did we actually

281
00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:28.200
did twice. We did a very brief version of

282
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.100
it in 2021 and then we did a longer

283
00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:35.000
version of it in 2022. And

284
00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:37.700
in this study we harvested

285
00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:40.400
sugar kelp from our farm The Greenway

286
00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:44.900
Farm on Thimble Island, and we took

287
00:14:43.900 --> 00:14:46.300
the kelp put into a mesh

288
00:14:46.300 --> 00:14:49.500
bag in a cooler with ice and transported it

289
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:52.800
directly to a Testing Lab

290
00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:55.900
in Rhode Island. So really from Harvest to

291
00:14:55.900 --> 00:14:58.400
the lab is only two to three

292
00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:02.600
hours tops. These are really ideal conditions and the

293
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.700
help was placed in these test bags

294
00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:07.200
that were held under Refrigeration for up to

295
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.600
14 days. And we took daily measurements of oxygen

296
00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:13.100
carbon dioxide and then we also did some

297
00:15:13.100 --> 00:15:16.400
physical observations around those quality metrics that

298
00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:17.300
we shared earlier.

299
00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:23.700
And what we found was first of all sugar kelp

300
00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:26.400
respires that was not necessarily a thing

301
00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:30.000
that we knew we wanted to validate that turns out

302
00:15:30.400 --> 00:15:30.700
it does.

303
00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:36.900
We also learned that the longer you wait to control temperature

304
00:15:36.900 --> 00:15:39.400
and exposure to oxygen and carbon dioxide

305
00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:42.500
the higher. The respiration rate will be which tracks with

306
00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.700
what we know about how produce behaves.

307
00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:48.700
We also learned that mature sugar kelp exhibits

308
00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:51.600
a slightly higher respiration rate than juvenile. Kelp.

309
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.200
So it has a shorter shelf life. Although that wasn't a huge

310
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.200
difference. It is something to consider and then

311
00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:57.700
I think the most

312
00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:01.500
shocking thing was that if this

313
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:04.300
sugar cup was optimally handled we found that it

314
00:16:04.300 --> 00:16:07.300
was able to survive for up to

315
00:16:07.300 --> 00:16:08.300
14 days, which

316
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.600
was longer than we expected and seemed like

317
00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.900
a really promising finding for sugarcalp as

318
00:16:15.900 --> 00:16:16.500
a fresh product.

319
00:16:21.400 --> 00:16:24.200
So one of the things that we did with

320
00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.400
that information was to get up real

321
00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:31.500
quick. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Can you okay great. Your your

322
00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:33.800
screen was showing the your application bar

323
00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:36.200
at the end. We couldn't see the whole slide but now we can oh, okay.

324
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:37.200
Good. You're all good.

325
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:38.300
cool

326
00:16:39.700 --> 00:16:42.200
So the the purpose of the

327
00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.200
respiration rate tests in addition to just kind

328
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.900
of understanding better. What how does sugar kelp behave when it

329
00:16:48.900 --> 00:16:51.300
comes out of the water was to think about what could

330
00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:54.400
packaging look like for fresh sugar? Kelp if

331
00:16:54.400 --> 00:16:57.700
someone wanted to sell it in in a

332
00:16:57.700 --> 00:17:00.500
food service environment. So think of it like the ramps

333
00:17:00.500 --> 00:17:03.000
of the sea, right so we have a short period of time where we are

334
00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:06.100
harvesting this kelp comes directly out of the water. Could we get it

335
00:17:06.100 --> 00:17:09.400
to a distributor that could send it to high-end restaurants

336
00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.000
in New York City? Could we get it to the

337
00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.100
grocery store and put it on the

338
00:17:15.100 --> 00:17:19.200
Shelf next to the lettuce even if it's just a few weeks only and

339
00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:22.000
what we found was, you know,

340
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.500
the fact that it lasted for 14 days under

341
00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:26.800
these really controlled conditions means that it actually

342
00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:31.300
Has potential in those applications if we were to

343
00:17:31.300 --> 00:17:34.500
package it in what's called modified atmosphere packaging or map

344
00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:37.600
and this is not vacuum packaging map

345
00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:40.300
is packaging that is designed to control the transmission of

346
00:17:40.300 --> 00:17:45.100
gases through the atmosphere by

347
00:17:43.100 --> 00:17:47.600
by basically allowing

348
00:17:46.600 --> 00:17:49.800
the atmosphere

349
00:17:49.800 --> 00:17:52.900
inside the package to come to equilibrium with the

350
00:17:52.900 --> 00:17:55.600
outside of the package through the use

351
00:17:55.600 --> 00:17:58.900
of specialized materials and small holes micro perforations.

352
00:17:58.900 --> 00:18:01.300
So eventually an equilibrium is

353
00:18:01.300 --> 00:18:04.000
reached but the inside of the package is different than the outside of the

354
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:04.400
package.

355
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.400
And this controlling of

356
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.400
gases lowers the respiration rate and other cellular

357
00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.700
processes and also creates a slightly acidic environment

358
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:18.100
which slows down the growth of spoilage bacteria.

359
00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:22.200
And so we've had a few

360
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.300
fresh who was on the call and we can ask them questions at the end. They they designed

361
00:18:25.300 --> 00:18:28.400
this packaging we came up with this packaging one

362
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:32.000
pager which we will share with you after this call and we

363
00:18:31.100 --> 00:18:34.800
are really hoping that folks give this packaging a

364
00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:37.900
try we have both designed

365
00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:40.400
the the specific bags to use

366
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.200
and then giving you some resources for where you

367
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:46.700
can get those through through actual

368
00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:47.700
manufacturers.

369
00:18:51.800 --> 00:18:54.200
The second study that we did was on

370
00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:57.500
storage containers. So we wanted to understand more about

371
00:18:57.500 --> 00:19:00.500
this, you know, keep the kelp fluffy thing. And and why

372
00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:03.100
do we do that? And we also wanted to investigate?

373
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:07.700
whether the sort of Industry standard practice

374
00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:10.300
of putting a large amount of kelp in a

375
00:19:10.300 --> 00:19:13.200
big sealed container is actually good for

376
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.900
the kelp because it's something that everybody's doing and

377
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.600
We wanted to know if it was ideal. So we took

378
00:19:20.600 --> 00:19:23.100
some sugarcalp from the East River of New York.

379
00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:26.700
We transported it to New Haven. It was

380
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:29.000
not in refrigeration during that time. So it got a little bit of

381
00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:33.300
abuse and we put it in these three different types of containers one

382
00:19:32.300 --> 00:19:35.300
is a bulk bin, but a vented

383
00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:38.700
bulk bin and only half height the other is a small

384
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:42.100
vented produce tote which might not

385
00:19:41.100 --> 00:19:45.100
be entirely practical for the

386
00:19:44.100 --> 00:19:47.300
large volumes of harvest. But we wanted to

387
00:19:47.300 --> 00:19:51.300
look at it from just a pure experimental

388
00:19:50.300 --> 00:19:53.100
perspective. And then we also had these

389
00:19:53.100 --> 00:19:56.500
55 gallon poly drums, which we totally sealed up

390
00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:59.500
except for a small hole in the top through which

391
00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:00.900
we could measure gases.

392
00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:05.800
And so we put kelp into these different types of containers. We

393
00:20:05.800 --> 00:20:08.500
store them for seven days and we took measurements throughout that

394
00:20:08.500 --> 00:20:08.700
time.

395
00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:16.600
What we found in this study is that the

396
00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:18.500
large in the

397
00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:21.300
in the barrels the kelp stayed moist but it

398
00:20:21.300 --> 00:20:25.100
didn't cool properly and more importantly it reached

399
00:20:24.100 --> 00:20:27.200
near anaerobic conditions and by that

400
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:31.300
we mean that the kelp remember we just talked about with needing oxygen

401
00:20:30.300 --> 00:20:33.800
in order to keep that respiration rate going essentially

402
00:20:33.800 --> 00:20:36.300
the kelp used up almost all of the

403
00:20:36.300 --> 00:20:39.000
oxygen in those barrels and at the

404
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.900
end of the seven days when we opened it the kelp was audibly bubbling. It

405
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:45.800
smelled acidic it looked great actually, but it

406
00:20:45.800 --> 00:20:47.300
was clearly fermenting.

407
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:52.600
The large bins what

408
00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:54.400
we found was there were no

409
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:57.100
fermentation occurred because the the kelp had plenty

410
00:20:57.100 --> 00:21:00.500
of access to oxygen so it did not start to ferment but

411
00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:03.600
it actually retained or maybe even generated heat

412
00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:06.200
in the center of the bin. So this was even

413
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.100
a half height size bulk bin

414
00:21:09.100 --> 00:21:12.500
and yet there was heat in the middle possibly because the

415
00:21:12.500 --> 00:21:15.600
kelp was cutting off oxygen to

416
00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:18.100
itself. We don't know for sure but that's sort of

417
00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:21.800
our working hypothesis. And then in the smallest totes,

418
00:21:21.800 --> 00:21:24.400
they cooled very quickly. There were no temperature differences

419
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.000
in the center of the bin between the center and the outside of

420
00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:30.400
the bin there were no off odors and there was less dryness than in those those

421
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.800
big half bins or totally open on top.

422
00:21:34.100 --> 00:21:36.800
So our takeaway here was that.

423
00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:42.400
Airtight and large volume storage containers potentially jeopardized

424
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.200
sugar kelp quality by cutting off

425
00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:48.200
this access to oxygen and obviously depends on you

426
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.100
know, how quickly you are getting it out of

427
00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:53.400
that big bin again. It also depends on whether it's just sitting there

428
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.200
or whether it is submerged in water,

429
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.400
especially if there is it's submerged in

430
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.100
ocean water which has oxygen dissolved in it. I think

431
00:22:02.100 --> 00:22:05.100
there are some really interesting follow-on studies that could

432
00:22:05.100 --> 00:22:06.300
be done with that but

433
00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:10.800
Um, the the behavior of the barrels said

434
00:22:10.800 --> 00:22:13.200
to us pretty loud and clear that that cutting off all

435
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:16.200
the oxygen was not a thing we want to be doing.

436
00:22:19.900 --> 00:22:22.300
And then when we looked at how this performance of sugar

437
00:22:22.300 --> 00:22:26.000
compares to what the produce industry expects the

438
00:22:25.800 --> 00:22:28.600
most are the produce in the country has

439
00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:31.100
grown on the west coast and shipped to

440
00:22:31.100 --> 00:22:34.400
the east coast. And so we usually that

441
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.700
if you're on the East Coast we're looking at 21 days from the

442
00:22:37.700 --> 00:22:40.800
time that a leafy green is harvested

443
00:22:40.800 --> 00:22:43.800
to when you you know

444
00:22:43.800 --> 00:22:46.500
the last day you could possibly buy it at

445
00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:49.100
the retail store. And so I think

446
00:22:49.100 --> 00:22:52.700
this really speaks to the regionality the

447
00:22:52.700 --> 00:22:55.200
importance of regionality here. This is

448
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.600
21 days is likely not going to be feasible for

449
00:22:58.600 --> 00:23:02.200
sugar kelp. But you know from the

450
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:05.300
respiration rate trials, we did see that the kelp was

451
00:23:05.300 --> 00:23:07.600
able to last 14 days.

452
00:23:08.500 --> 00:23:11.300
And so it is within the range of

453
00:23:11.300 --> 00:23:15.000
possible possible use in a

454
00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:17.700
kind of Market situation similar

455
00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:19.400
to produce.

456
00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.700
And you know this could decrease if the kelp

457
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.300
is abused if it is left out if it

458
00:23:26.300 --> 00:23:31.000
is not cooled quickly, but it's

459
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:33.000
I think it was really promising and

460
00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:35.800
encouraging to see how well sugarcult behaved

461
00:23:35.800 --> 00:23:36.500
relative to.

462
00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:39.100
What the expectations are for produce?

463
00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:46.600
Next steps so we definitely do not

464
00:23:46.600 --> 00:23:49.300
think that this work was comprehensive. And so

465
00:23:49.300 --> 00:23:52.400
we want to do some more work to determine what other factors might

466
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.600
influence respiration rates and shelf life, you know

467
00:23:56.600 --> 00:24:00.000
based on the studies described. We

468
00:23:59.300 --> 00:24:02.600
think that you can extend the shelf life.

469
00:24:02.600 --> 00:24:06.000
If we really take post-harvest handling seriously, which

470
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.400
would make it feasible as a fresh or Food

471
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.300
Service product. So these are

472
00:24:11.300 --> 00:24:14.600
some of the other considerations that we might want to look into

473
00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:18.000
or that someone else in this call might want to look into and

474
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:20.400
we would love to talk more

475
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.300
about anyone seeking to to do

476
00:24:23.300 --> 00:24:24.400
studies like this going forward.

477
00:24:26.800 --> 00:24:29.000
We do have a few more studies planned for this

478
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:32.800
coming year. We are going to be looking at iodine control

479
00:24:32.800 --> 00:24:35.300
assault control holding temperature and

480
00:24:35.300 --> 00:24:38.900
humidity, which we did not look at in the storage studies last

481
00:24:38.900 --> 00:24:41.700
year and also biofuel removal

482
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:44.400
in this work is going to be funded in

483
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.700
part by a safe seaweed Coalition Grant and we are working with Q fresh

484
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:48.000
again.

485
00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:51.800
so with that let's

486
00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:53.700
do some Q&amp;A.

487
00:24:55.900 --> 00:24:58.600
Awesome. Thanks so much Sam so

488
00:24:58.600 --> 00:25:01.800
much in there. I'm excited to unpack it Azure had

489
00:25:01.800 --> 00:25:05.700
a good question early on just from a farmer's perspective do

490
00:25:04.700 --> 00:25:07.300
your research. She asked

491
00:25:07.300 --> 00:25:10.100
bags or coats for Harvest. Do you

492
00:25:10.100 --> 00:25:13.200
have recommendations for folks who are on the boat?

493
00:25:15.800 --> 00:25:18.800
I'm sorry. Could you I don't

494
00:25:18.800 --> 00:25:20.100
I didn't quite get that.

495
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:24.100
The question was when when farmers are harvesting. Do you

496
00:25:24.100 --> 00:25:28.500
recommend bags or totes for Harvest? Um,

497
00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:31.300
I mean, it depends on what kind of bag or what

498
00:25:31.300 --> 00:25:34.000
kind of tote I would say. Um, I think you know

499
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.300
the based on what we just learned.

500
00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.200
the it seems that more smaller

501
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.700
containers that allow the kelp

502
00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:46.400
to not Crush itself under its

503
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.200
own weight, which which reduces its access

504
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.200
to oxygen would be better, but you have

505
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.100
to weigh that against the Practical considerations of

506
00:25:56.300 --> 00:25:59.200
You know, you are you're on a boat and you're harvesting and

507
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.100
you need to do that quickly. So we don't have the answer necessarily

508
00:26:02.100 --> 00:26:05.200
in terms of the type of container that

509
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.500
is best. But I think our guidance is

510
00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:11.900
to consider whether there is a slightly either smaller

511
00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:14.900
container or a way to build structure into

512
00:26:14.900 --> 00:26:17.500
the containers that you're using so that the so that

513
00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:20.200
you're not cutting off oxygen to the

514
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:22.500
kelp that's in the center of a very large bin.

515
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.100
And Jennifer Eric. I

516
00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:29.100
don't know if you want to weigh in here. I mean, I know that one thing that

517
00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:32.200
I've found really educational about working

518
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.200
with Jeff. And Eric is you think about like where does all our

519
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:38.500
lettuce come from? And so a question I would send to Jeff early on I was like, would

520
00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:41.200
you ever take lettuce like us like spinach and put

521
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.500
it into a 500 pound bin and

522
00:26:44.500 --> 00:26:48.500
he was like, no you would never do that. So if

523
00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:50.800
I don't know if you have anything you can share with that.

524
00:26:51.800 --> 00:26:52.900
Yeah, I mean.

525
00:26:53.800 --> 00:26:56.800
Sam great job just kind

526
00:26:56.800 --> 00:26:59.400
of reiterating what you said you're dealing with a living

527
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.200
product. It's one of the few.

528
00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:05.400
Packaging whether we're talking about bulk packaging or food service

529
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.700
or retail. It's one of the few packaging applications where

530
00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:11.500
you actually have the privilege of packaging something that's

531
00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:11.900
alive.

532
00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:15.400
There's Sam said it's consuming oxygen. It's giving off

533
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.100
carbon dioxide. You don't want to choke at all.

534
00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:21.400
So when you're harvesting if you

535
00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:24.400
can have those bins be vented in some way

536
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:27.200
especially if they're going to be in those bins for a while.

537
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.900
The produce industry uses those small bins

538
00:27:31.900 --> 00:27:34.400
that you saw in an earlier slide. That's

539
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.400
probably not practical for the seaweed

540
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.000
industry. So you're gonna need to get larger bins. But

541
00:27:40.300 --> 00:27:43.400
if they can be vented so you can allow

542
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.600
oxygen to that product the longer

543
00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:49.000
it's going to last before you get it into the

544
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.200
final package and the final package is doing the same

545
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:55.400
thing. It's allowing oxygen in it's allowing

546
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.400
carbon dioxide out and the transmission

547
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.400
rate of those final packages is in

548
00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:05.000
concert with the physiological breathing properties

549
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:06.100
of the produce.

550
00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:09.200
So for harvesting if you

551
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.300
have to put it in big totes leave the lid

552
00:28:12.300 --> 00:28:14.300
off if you can and I realize that.

553
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.400
You know, there are some Logistics here that that

554
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.500
may be difficult but at the end of the day.

555
00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:24.300
You've got a live product and you have to allow it

556
00:28:24.300 --> 00:28:26.700
to breathe or it's going to go anaerobic.

557
00:28:27.300 --> 00:28:30.900
Go into what's called fermentative metabolism and you're

558
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.600
going to create those off flavors and all voters.

559
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:36.000
Thanks, Steph.

560
00:28:37.300 --> 00:28:37.600
That's awesome.

561
00:28:38.300 --> 00:28:38.800
You had just a quick.

562
00:28:39.100 --> 00:28:42.300
Follow-up. So she said for my small farm that the RPC totes could

563
00:28:42.300 --> 00:28:45.300
work, but do I need ice cubes or some other icing in

564
00:28:45.300 --> 00:28:46.300
the middle of the kelp?

565
00:28:48.300 --> 00:28:51.900
um, no, most of the guidance that

566
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:56.000
that we've seen from from sea

567
00:28:54.100 --> 00:28:57.300
Grant states that

568
00:28:57.300 --> 00:29:00.000
you don't want the kelp to come directly into contact with

569
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:05.200
With ice or with anything freezing because it can

570
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:07.300
shock it and that actually isn't great for it either.

571
00:29:07.300 --> 00:29:10.200
So the ideal is that you harvest it under

572
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:15.300
cool conditions and then you pretty quickly get it to Refrigeration. Alternatively.

573
00:29:13.300 --> 00:29:16.200
I I do know

574
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:19.300
that there are a fair number of folks now who are harvesting the kelp

575
00:29:19.300 --> 00:29:22.500
and then submerging it back in the ocean water and

576
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:25.400
we did not look at that. I think

577
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:28.300
that's really interesting and also a really great way

578
00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:31.500
to both keep the kelp cool and again if

579
00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:34.200
there's if if there's oxygen dissolved in that water

580
00:29:35.100 --> 00:29:38.100
You could you know, you're releasing the weight that it could

581
00:29:38.100 --> 00:29:41.400
be that there's water flowing there. But I do want emphasize we didn't test that. So

582
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.300
I think it's really promising and maybe that's why

583
00:29:44.300 --> 00:29:45.400
it seems to work for people but

584
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.400
Um, yeah, that's where we are.

585
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.300
awesome

586
00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:54.900
a question from boyan. It sounds

587
00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:57.500
like there are two competing interest keeping oxygen out

588
00:29:57.500 --> 00:30:00.700
of the kelp's storage environment to keep this kelp cells

589
00:30:00.700 --> 00:30:03.600
respiration rate low, but then also of waiting

590
00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:06.900
to little oxygen because this encourages anaerobic microbes

591
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.400
to ferment the kill. Is there an environment that

592
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.100
prevents both respiration and fermentation?

593
00:30:13.900 --> 00:30:16.100
Hi, this is Eric vandercoat from

594
00:30:16.100 --> 00:30:19.300
Q. Fresh out. I'll handle that one. Um, the short

595
00:30:19.300 --> 00:30:22.200
answer is yes. So every seaweed is going to be a little bit

596
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:25.600
different every seaweed is going to have a different

597
00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:29.100
optimal range. Every seaweed going to have a different

598
00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:32.200
respiration rate depending on the temperature But

599
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:35.100
ultimately it's going to also have an optimal

600
00:30:34.100 --> 00:30:37.900
range of o2 values which keeps

601
00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:40.300
it above the Anna anaerobic threshold, but

602
00:30:40.300 --> 00:30:43.400
also increases that oxygen enough

603
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:44.800
to give you a shelf like

604
00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:48.500
And that's something that that is dependent

605
00:30:48.500 --> 00:30:51.600
on mainly temperature in the

606
00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:52.000
seaweed type.

607
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.500
Awesome. Thanks, Eric. And Edie and

608
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:01.000
Kathryn have two similar questions. They ask well, do you

609
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.700
please expand on why it's best to keep kelp moist but not wet specifically

610
00:31:04.700 --> 00:31:07.400
is their reason not to store. Kelp in cold seawater

611
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.400
for a short term one or two days prior to next

612
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.100
stage processing and Catherine similarly asks, can you

613
00:31:13.100 --> 00:31:16.400
float a brailleur bag in a small amount of salt water in a large tote?

614
00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:20.800
Again, Eric Anika from few fresh here. You know,

615
00:31:20.800 --> 00:31:24.000
I think that comes down to controls. So if

616
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.600
you're if you have standing water that

617
00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:29.300
you're trying to put this into that is

618
00:31:29.300 --> 00:31:32.200
not very well controlled. Then that's going to be kind of

619
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:36.000
a different setup than say if you had wait,

620
00:31:35.100 --> 00:31:39.900
you know, I know of a company for example that has tanks

621
00:31:38.900 --> 00:31:41.200
near the near the ocean where

622
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.300
they're actually pumping sea water from the ocean and and they're actually growing seaweed

623
00:31:44.300 --> 00:31:47.500
inside the tank now that same type

624
00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:51.100
of setup because probably be worked for freshly

625
00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:54.000
Harvest freshly harvested seaweed

626
00:31:53.100 --> 00:31:57.200
that you then put in there for, you know at the

627
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.700
right temperature to it to extend that

628
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:01.300
I don't see why that wouldn't work.

629
00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:05.300
Right, and I think the key difference there is standing water

630
00:32:05.300 --> 00:32:06.200
versus.

631
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.200
Versus either the ocean which is decidedly not

632
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.600
standing or or like Eric's describing

633
00:32:13.600 --> 00:32:16.600
where there's a bubbler or something that is refreshing that

634
00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:20.100
water and making sure that there are still oxygen in

635
00:32:19.100 --> 00:32:22.400
in it. But if you just let the water sit there

636
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.200
whether it's fresh water or sea water you're not you're not

637
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.300
going to get much out of that.

638
00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:30.400
Yeah at the end of the day you keep in

639
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.700
mind. This is after you as soon as you harvest it

640
00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:36.500
you go into this respiration. So the

641
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:40.000
the kelp is wanting to consume oxygen give

642
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:43.100
off carbon dioxide just like we do so you've

643
00:32:42.100 --> 00:32:45.200
got to have it allow it to

644
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.100
have access to that oxygen that may be

645
00:32:48.100 --> 00:32:51.500
through an active sea water or through it's you

646
00:32:51.500 --> 00:32:54.000
know in air in some kind of vented toe. You don't want

647
00:32:54.100 --> 00:32:55.500
to completely dry out.

648
00:32:56.300 --> 00:32:59.300
But you do have to be careful. You just can't dunk it

649
00:32:59.300 --> 00:33:01.200
in standing water for a long period of time.

650
00:33:01.900 --> 00:33:03.600
Because it's not going to get that oxygen.

651
00:33:06.700 --> 00:33:10.200
That's great. Thanks guys. I'm really thorough answer Steve had

652
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:12.400
a clarifying question about the study that you did.

653
00:33:12.800 --> 00:33:15.500
Say he wanted to know how much weight was able to be put into

654
00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:17.800
the two different types of totes that you mentioned.

655
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:22.200
Yeah, good question. We turns

656
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:24.100
out our skills broken. So we

657
00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:27.300
unfortunately didn't get that measurement. But anecdotally I

658
00:33:27.300 --> 00:33:30.400
can tell you that the small RPC totes.

659
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:32.700
I mean, it was really not a lot of seaweed. It was maybe

660
00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:37.800
I mean, I would say seven to ten

661
00:33:37.800 --> 00:33:41.300
pounds Max per bin and then

662
00:33:40.300 --> 00:33:43.500
the big ones were pretty substantial

663
00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:44.900
the big ones I would say were.

664
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.500
I don't know if you a couple hundred pounds, maybe

665
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:52.600
like I would say two like a hundred 200

666
00:33:52.600 --> 00:33:55.500
pounds, but I that's a guess based on.

667
00:33:56.500 --> 00:33:59.600
Me physically putting see creating for

668
00:33:59.600 --> 00:34:02.700
the containers this speaks to

669
00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:04.500
our the pilot nature of these studies.

670
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.500
But I do know that when people are using the full size of those toes.

671
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:13.500
So those were standard like pallet sized footprint and

672
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:16.700
just a half height when people do generally do

673
00:34:16.700 --> 00:34:19.200
the the larger version. I have

674
00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:22.300
seen guidance that you will don't want to put more than 500 pounds

675
00:34:22.300 --> 00:34:25.600
in those. So it would check out that roughly half of that would be you

676
00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:26.900
know, 200 250.

677
00:34:29.600 --> 00:34:32.100
Great Tobias wants to know

678
00:34:32.100 --> 00:34:35.200
fresh. Kelp versus freeze blasted. Kelp. What

679
00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:39.100
are the benefits of the fresh stuff over the Frozen? Mmm. So

680
00:34:38.100 --> 00:34:41.700
we did not look at freezing at

681
00:34:41.700 --> 00:34:44.700
all as part of this. This study was

682
00:34:44.700 --> 00:34:48.100
really focused on Fresh. So so

683
00:34:47.100 --> 00:34:50.400
unfortunately, I can't answer the question. Sorry.

684
00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:55.200
A similar question from Angela. She is wondering do you

685
00:34:55.200 --> 00:34:58.300
think with the safe handling practices that keep the

686
00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.400
kelp alive and well up to 14 days that this is

687
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:04.300
a window in which it can then be dried or is it still best

688
00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:05.800
to dry within 48 hours?

689
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.700
It's always best to get it stable like properly

690
00:35:09.700 --> 00:35:11.900
stable as fast as you can for sure.

691
00:35:13.600 --> 00:35:16.600
If you can process within 48 hours do

692
00:35:16.600 --> 00:35:19.400
it that that's that's my guidance Arab Jeff

693
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:21.900
for Eric. I don't know if you have anything to add to that.

694
00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.400
I would I would concur with that and and the

695
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.100
one thing I can say about the I can't speak

696
00:35:29.100 --> 00:35:33.200
to cope because we didn't test it but I can speak to Fresh

697
00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:35.400
Produce versus Frozen produce and

698
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:39.300
you do lose certain vitamin and nutrient content

699
00:35:38.300 --> 00:35:42.400
during the freezing process whether that

700
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.400
translates to cope or not needs to be tested out.

701
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:51.200
But at the end of the day the faster you can process

702
00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:52.600
it once it's harvested.

703
00:35:53.700 --> 00:35:56.200
The better off you are the longer it sits

704
00:35:56.200 --> 00:35:59.300
before you do the next step. What even

705
00:35:59.300 --> 00:35:59.600
if you're gonna

706
00:36:00.500 --> 00:36:03.400
Whether you sell it right, where do you sell it frozen whether you

707
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:06.200
continue to to sell it fresh the sooner you

708
00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:09.200
can do that to harvest as a general rule of thumb

709
00:36:09.200 --> 00:36:10.300
the better off you are.

710
00:36:13.100 --> 00:36:13.400
awesome

711
00:36:14.300 --> 00:36:18.000
Bostock wants to know could you please share good? What

712
00:36:17.100 --> 00:36:20.800
is the best case scenario for the number of shelf

713
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:23.300
life days if best practices are used?

714
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.000
Yes, so we saw about 14

715
00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:29.700
days of shelf life.

716
00:36:31.700 --> 00:36:34.500
And I know there was some another question

717
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:38.800
earlier that that depends on many factors. What are

718
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.400
those factors? And what should people be thinking about in that

719
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:42.300
that window?

720
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.200
Yeah, so let's go

721
00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:48.600
back a little in the slides.

722
00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:53.300
Yeah, so in addition to

723
00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.600
oxygen access to oxygen we are

724
00:36:57.600 --> 00:36:59.700
thinking about all of these factors so

725
00:37:01.700 --> 00:37:04.500
You know, the more the the tissue is physically

726
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:08.400
damaged that's going to affect respiration exposure to

727
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:11.200
light. Probably just again, these are sort of

728
00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:14.200
a list that we made in collaboration with Q fresh based on what

729
00:37:14.200 --> 00:37:17.300
they know about produce. So

730
00:37:18.600 --> 00:37:21.300
Water temperatures at the time of harvest or also even

731
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:24.700
like throughout the growing we have no idea how that affects

732
00:37:24.700 --> 00:37:27.200
the the kelp. We tried to measure that

733
00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:30.200
in our second year study by taking samples of

734
00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:33.400
the sugar kelp once every two weeks and we didn't notice a few

735
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:36.200
huge change there but this is exactly why we need it to

736
00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:39.500
be replicated. We took help from one Farm over the course of one season,

737
00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:42.300
and yes, we took it over every two weeks. But you know,

738
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:45.000
we would love to get more data on what that

739
00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:48.600
looks like in different locations air temperature. Obviously, we

740
00:37:48.600 --> 00:37:51.300
the Kelps coming out of the water and then it's sitting and

741
00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:54.300
in the air on your boat until you can get it someplace so

742
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:55.100
that might impact it.

743
00:37:57.100 --> 00:38:01.300
Where the the tissue actually is from could

744
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:01.900
affect it.

745
00:38:02.700 --> 00:38:05.300
Also, if you if you've done anything else to it, if you've watched

746
00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:09.300
it or blanched it, I think just going back to Jeff's point

747
00:38:08.300 --> 00:38:11.900
about like this is the this is alive like

748
00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:14.000
when you get oysters out of the water, it's kind of

749
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.500
obvious that it's alive. But but if you think of sugar kelp

750
00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:20.100
as a thing that is still alive and you're

751
00:38:20.100 --> 00:38:23.200
trying to keep it alive for as long as possible. I think

752
00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:26.400
that's a helpful like heuristic for thinking about like is

753
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.300
this thing gonna this thing that I'm doing to it is this gonna

754
00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:32.300
make it last longer or is it gonna shorten that shelf life? Just

755
00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:34.600
think about like if you had a flower or a

756
00:38:35.700 --> 00:38:38.100
Yeah, or lettuce, what would you

757
00:38:38.100 --> 00:38:38.100
do?

758
00:38:41.300 --> 00:38:45.000
Awesome. Steve has a kind of follow on to that. So he

759
00:38:44.100 --> 00:38:47.600
says that his buyer is driving down from Maine. Once he

760
00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:50.400
Harvest with a refrigerated truck and he's been trying to find a local business to

761
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.300
use Refrigeration in case the truck breaks

762
00:38:53.300 --> 00:38:56.400
down or whatever. But what would the optimal temperature would farmers

763
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:01.100
want to store their? Kelp at in that fridge also a

764
00:39:00.100 --> 00:39:02.700
great question. So right now,

765
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.900
The guidance coming from from sea

766
00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:09.700
Grant is that we want to be looking at 41 degrees or

767
00:39:09.700 --> 00:39:12.200
lower and that's in part because

768
00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:15.800
of the contamination risk with with shellfish with with

769
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.700
biofouling. So if you are kelp

770
00:39:18.700 --> 00:39:21.200
were to have some, you know, snail or something else

771
00:39:21.200 --> 00:39:24.800
on it, and then that is stored outside,

772
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:27.500
you know warmer than 41 degrees that could

773
00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:30.100
potentially cause food safety issues for your product Downstream.

774
00:39:32.200 --> 00:39:35.100
If it were just up to the kelp itself without thinking about

775
00:39:35.100 --> 00:39:38.400
biophile, there might be other temperatures that are slightly warmer that

776
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.100
would be better but that's not something we've tested in

777
00:39:41.100 --> 00:39:44.600
the past year studies and we are hoping to do tests

778
00:39:44.600 --> 00:39:46.000
on that this coming season.

779
00:39:47.500 --> 00:39:50.200
The other thing that I can add to get again, this is

780
00:39:50.200 --> 00:39:51.700
this it's not killed.

781
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:55.300
But it's possible that people will start looking

782
00:39:55.300 --> 00:39:57.700
at tilt more like leafy green products.

783
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.800
By law leafy greens have to be kept below 41

784
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.800
and a half degrees Fahrenheit. Okay from a

785
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:07.500
food safety standpoint. So that hasn't and that's

786
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:11.200
an FDA regulation that hasn't translated just

787
00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:13.300
seaweed yet, but you could

788
00:40:13.300 --> 00:40:16.200
see where people would sort of look at it like that. So I

789
00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:19.100
think that 41 41 and a half good number.

790
00:40:23.500 --> 00:40:26.300
We have to interesting question after Cooling and he said were

791
00:40:26.300 --> 00:40:29.500
any Harvest handling processing methods looked at which explicitly avoid

792
00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:32.800
cooling the kelp unfortunately, the lca's our

793
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.500
lifecycle analyzes out there today show that cooling indoor

794
00:40:35.500 --> 00:40:38.500
icing the kelp effectively completely and does the climate benefit of

795
00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:41.300
growing it IE the cooling process even for a fairly

796
00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:44.500
short time emits more greenhouse gases than the kelpkin sequester

797
00:40:44.500 --> 00:40:45.400
during its whole lifetime.

798
00:40:46.600 --> 00:40:49.100
Eric I saw you responded to that one in the chat

799
00:40:49.100 --> 00:40:50.600
you want to chime in?

800
00:40:51.700 --> 00:40:54.100
Yeah, I briefly answered that. Um, this is

801
00:40:54.100 --> 00:40:57.400
this was not part of this study, but I have looked at um,

802
00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.900
and it also wasn't sugar. Kelp. It was it was I

803
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:03.500
can't remember off top my head was either. Oh go go or

804
00:41:03.500 --> 00:41:06.400
dose and we looked at various

805
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.200
temperatures. So at the time we didn't know, you know,

806
00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:12.100
whether cold or hot or warmer, and we wanted

807
00:41:12.100 --> 00:41:13.700
to look at the effects so we actually did test.

808
00:41:14.700 --> 00:41:17.700
36 42 50 and

809
00:41:17.700 --> 00:41:22.100
62, I believe in that test that I did and essentially, you

810
00:41:20.100 --> 00:41:23.400
know, the higher the temperature you go

811
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.400
the more shelf life you lose in the the effects can

812
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.500
be quite drastic. So the difference between 36 degrees

813
00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:32.400
storage and 62 degree storage was about

814
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.400
10 days. So we got closer to 13 14 days at

815
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.200
that colder temperature and once you kept it

816
00:41:38.200 --> 00:41:42.300
at 62 a lot of it was micro-driven and

817
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:44.400
off odor driven and that product

818
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:47.400
went bad much earlier three four five days post

819
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:47.900
Harvest.

820
00:41:52.900 --> 00:41:55.600
With them the greatest

821
00:41:55.600 --> 00:41:58.700
I saw that you answered this but there have been a couple questions about the

822
00:41:58.700 --> 00:42:01.600
if we could all expand on the map packaging

823
00:42:01.600 --> 00:42:04.300
and what recommended for what

824
00:42:04.300 --> 00:42:06.700
type of product is this fresh dried or Frozen.

825
00:42:11.500 --> 00:42:12.200
Yeah, if you want to handle that.

826
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:18.400
Sorry, I was just gonna say that that it is designed for fresh.

827
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.400
We did not look at it with

828
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:24.300
frozen or dried because

829
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:27.100
at that point your kelp is no longer breathing in those other

830
00:42:27.100 --> 00:42:30.500
situations. And so the idea of the the

831
00:42:30.500 --> 00:42:33.200
concept with this packaging is that there are

832
00:42:33.200 --> 00:42:36.600
there is a material that the packaging is

833
00:42:36.600 --> 00:42:39.300
made out of which was selected specifically for sugar

834
00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:42.700
kelp, but then there's all these perforations so like literal actual holes.

835
00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:45.100
And if you go to the next time you go to the grocery store, if you

836
00:42:45.100 --> 00:42:48.500
look in your prepare in your packaged produce section,

837
00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:52.000
look for the holes, like you'll notice that depending on

838
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:54.300
what type of product is there. There are

839
00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:57.400
different sizes of holes in the packaging. And so those holes

840
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.300
are intended to let the let the

841
00:43:00.300 --> 00:43:04.200
kelp breathe at the rate that is ideal

842
00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:04.900
for it to

843
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:09.500
stay alive, but not use up

844
00:43:09.500 --> 00:43:10.700
all its glucose too fast.

845
00:43:11.900 --> 00:43:14.200
Just absolutely and this is where it can

846
00:43:14.200 --> 00:43:17.600
get a little confusing because there's two definitions

847
00:43:17.600 --> 00:43:20.600
of modified atmosphere packaging and it depends

848
00:43:20.600 --> 00:43:22.500
on the product that your Packaging.

849
00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:26.400
If your packaging a dried product or

850
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:31.300
for instance in the meat industry or in the

851
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:33.100
cheese industry and a lot of other

852
00:43:33.100 --> 00:43:36.800
more shell stable products modified atmosphere packaging means

853
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:39.700
you get all of the oxygen out you pack

854
00:43:39.700 --> 00:43:42.700
it in a barrier package and you keep the oxygen out.

855
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:47.300
Modified atmosphere packaging for fresh produce which

856
00:43:46.300 --> 00:43:49.700
seaweed falls under the kelp

857
00:43:49.700 --> 00:43:52.700
falls under is a modified atmosphere

858
00:43:52.700 --> 00:43:55.200
packaging that you're bringing the

859
00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:58.300
oxygen level down, but you're not bringing it down

860
00:43:58.300 --> 00:43:58.900
to zero.

861
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:02.300
So you have to be a little bit careful when you're

862
00:44:02.300 --> 00:44:05.200
talking about modified atmosphere packaging. I mean,

863
00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:08.600
the scientific definition of modified atmosphere packaging

864
00:44:08.600 --> 00:44:11.800
is anything inside the package that is

865
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:14.900
not 21.7% oxygen 300

866
00:44:14.900 --> 00:44:17.300
parts per million carbon, dioxide and

867
00:44:17.300 --> 00:44:20.800
72.8% everything else if you

868
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.800
have something other than that, which is air

869
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:26.600
if you have something other than that inside your

870
00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:29.300
pocket package by definition, you have a modified

871
00:44:29.300 --> 00:44:30.400
atmosphere package.

872
00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:34.500
Modified atmosphere packaging for cheese

873
00:44:33.500 --> 00:44:36.700
and meat and even certain

874
00:44:36.700 --> 00:44:40.200
fish and shellfish is significantly different

875
00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:42.700
than modified atmosphere packaging

876
00:44:42.700 --> 00:44:45.500
for produce the kelp project

877
00:44:45.500 --> 00:44:49.800
and the slide that you see up there is specifically

878
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.700
modified atmosphere packaging

879
00:44:51.700 --> 00:44:54.600
for something that's living and breathing

880
00:44:54.600 --> 00:44:56.900
and would be more produce light.

881
00:44:58.500 --> 00:44:59.500
If that clarifies it.

882
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:03.400
And yeah, and I'd one more thing to that which is that we were trying

883
00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:04.300
to be really careful.

884
00:45:06.500 --> 00:45:09.800
to make this packaging fall

885
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:10.300
under

886
00:45:11.300 --> 00:45:13.200
a farm activity and

887
00:45:19.700 --> 00:45:20.400
We just lost.

888
00:45:21.500 --> 00:45:24.300
I'm sure she was working on coming back in but in the meantime, I'll

889
00:45:24.300 --> 00:45:27.100
skip over and maybe Jeff or Eric. You can

890
00:45:27.100 --> 00:45:31.000
answer does the map packaging is it typically petro-based or

891
00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:31.900
based from Plastics?

892
00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.700
So traditionally if you look at modified atmosphere packaging for

893
00:45:36.700 --> 00:45:38.200
fresh produce when it started.

894
00:45:38.900 --> 00:45:41.500
Really really strongly in the late 80s.

895
00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:44.900
It was all conventional petroleum based that

896
00:45:44.900 --> 00:45:47.200
is changed now still quite a

897
00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:51.600
bit of it is globally but there's also biopolymers.

898
00:45:50.600 --> 00:45:54.200
There's also some

899
00:45:53.200 --> 00:45:56.400
non-plat, you know, so by a

900
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.800
polymer is like a pla or PBA and

901
00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:03.000
there's a whole bunch of different ones that are Plastics that

902
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.900
are made from biological products.

903
00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:08.600
The one that everybody knows and everybody uses

904
00:46:08.600 --> 00:46:11.700
every day, but doesn't really realize it's a biopolymer

905
00:46:11.700 --> 00:46:12.900
is cellophane.

906
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:17.000
Cellophane is made from wood. So technically it

907
00:46:16.200 --> 00:46:20.000
is a biopolymer and it's one of the oldest Plastics

908
00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:22.700
in the world. So and and there

909
00:46:22.700 --> 00:46:25.600
even fiber options now the gas

910
00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:28.900
which is sugar cane husks. So they're

911
00:46:28.900 --> 00:46:31.400
a lot more options available now and there's more

912
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:35.000
coming on almost every day that it

913
00:46:34.200 --> 00:46:37.100
does not necessarily mean it has to

914
00:46:37.100 --> 00:46:40.100
be a conventional petroleum based polymer.

915
00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:44.000
Great grateful up. Thank you for that.

916
00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:49.000
And I saw that this question was Eric you you got to Bowen's

917
00:46:48.100 --> 00:46:51.200
question, but I thought it was worth repeating for

918
00:46:51.200 --> 00:46:54.200
the group just because I think it makes a good point how bad for the

919
00:46:54.200 --> 00:46:57.900
quality would it be to have the kelp and a highly oxygen constrained environment

920
00:46:57.900 --> 00:47:00.700
for a short span of time while harvesting

921
00:47:00.700 --> 00:47:03.800
so 30 to 60 minutes and then get it back into

922
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:07.300
an oxygenated environment for further processing Eric.

923
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:09.100
Did you want to repeat that answer?

924
00:47:12.200 --> 00:47:15.900
Um, yeah, hold on the second. That's one

925
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:16.400
of the answer, right?

926
00:47:17.900 --> 00:47:20.400
Yeah, you said it takes time for the O2 to change short periods.

927
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.700
Should not have okay. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I

928
00:47:23.700 --> 00:47:26.500
mean short-term periods. So changing out

929
00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:29.900
to inside of a container is not a really rapid

930
00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:32.600
process. It takes most times

931
00:47:32.600 --> 00:47:35.200
kind of depending on the volume of the container. They were not

932
00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:39.700
a product the respiration rate of the product to take somewhere between you

933
00:47:38.700 --> 00:47:41.600
know, three and five days to reach

934
00:47:41.600 --> 00:47:44.600
me delivery. So putting something like that in

935
00:47:44.600 --> 00:47:47.600
a constrained environment for very short period of time would start

936
00:47:47.600 --> 00:47:50.400
to change the O2 but it wouldn't change it very

937
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:51.700
much if I go from say

938
00:47:52.600 --> 00:47:55.300
21% that we're breathing right now to maybe

939
00:47:55.300 --> 00:47:58.400
18 19 percent so you can actually even push it

940
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.100
a little bit further if you wanted to and especially if

941
00:48:01.100 --> 00:48:05.300
you're monitoring that using a an O2 CO2 headspace

942
00:48:04.300 --> 00:48:07.300
monitor, that'd be one way to assure

943
00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:09.100
that but it should be absolutely no problem.

944
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:13.000
That's interesting. Is that that kind of opens up

945
00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:15.300
more possibilities for the farmer on the boat right there?

946
00:48:17.200 --> 00:48:20.300
Were these options might be a little bit more constrained? Yeah, the what

947
00:48:20.300 --> 00:48:23.700
we found is the bigger for those short periods

948
00:48:23.700 --> 00:48:26.400
of time when you're putting it into kind of

949
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:29.500
an overloaded bin. It is temperature and

950
00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:32.200
heat load. So once you pull it from the water,

951
00:48:32.200 --> 00:48:35.300
then you're looking at well, what's the

952
00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:38.300
ambient temperature? And how long is it stored directly in the Sun and

953
00:48:38.300 --> 00:48:41.300
in some of those factors which can boost the heat inside of

954
00:48:41.300 --> 00:48:44.700
the system which can have kind of more drastic effects

955
00:48:44.700 --> 00:48:47.100
than just simply changing the O2 and those early

956
00:48:47.100 --> 00:48:47.400
stages.

957
00:48:50.100 --> 00:48:50.400
Great.

958
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:54.700
I'm standing there have been a couple questions. Krista asked

959
00:48:54.700 --> 00:48:57.300
a question about if this study looked at the effects

960
00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:00.700
of a freshwater rinse, which we know that it didn't necessarily

961
00:49:00.700 --> 00:49:03.300
but can you speak there were kind of follow-up questions on that

962
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:06.300
in terms of would a freshwater rinse cause

963
00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:10.900
blistering to the kelp what would implications of that be and interest?

964
00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:12.100
Yeah interested if you want to

965
00:49:12.100 --> 00:49:12.400
comment on that.

966
00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:16.200
Yeah, and I thought thank you Michael for jumping in on

967
00:49:16.200 --> 00:49:19.800
that one. The advice right now

968
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:22.400
is to not rinse the

969
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.300
kelp in freshwater and different help has different

970
00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:28.300
reactions to this. But but in general it is not

971
00:49:28.300 --> 00:49:32.200
good to rinse with fresh water. If some folks

972
00:49:31.200 --> 00:49:34.300
who are blanching they are blanching

973
00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:37.400
with fresh water, but the blanches already changing

974
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:40.500
so much about the kelp that it's not it's not Apples

975
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:43.500
to Apples. So yeah in general you want to actually protect

976
00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:46.500
your kelp from fresh water. So you you wouldn't even ideally want

977
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:49.300
to harvest in the rain and you would want to cover your

978
00:49:49.300 --> 00:49:52.500
kelp to make sure it doesn't get splashed with with any fresh

979
00:49:52.500 --> 00:49:52.700
water.

980
00:49:54.500 --> 00:49:58.600
And sort of going off that I know that in recent conversations

981
00:49:57.600 --> 00:50:01.200
Sam you have recommended folks do

982
00:50:00.200 --> 00:50:03.400
use a blanching method to

983
00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:06.500
reduce the iodine content and kelp so can you

984
00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:09.200
speak to the iodine content of fresh kelp and and any of

985
00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:11.000
these practices do they impact that at all?

986
00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:15.700
Yeah, so the practice is the storage and post-service

987
00:50:15.700 --> 00:50:18.500
handling things that we studied with with just like

988
00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:21.500
holding it in different conditions. Those should not have any effect

989
00:50:21.500 --> 00:50:24.300
on iodine at all. We would not expect them to at least.

990
00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:27.700
That being said we didn't look at it. So we don't know for sure.

991
00:50:29.700 --> 00:50:33.000
There is a great paper out there very thorough

992
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.300
on blanching to reduce and

993
00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:39.400
control iodine that showed that blanching sugar.

994
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:42.300
Kelp pretty reliably brings it down to 12% of

995
00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:45.300
what the what it is normally and that's

996
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:48.200
great news because yeah Brown macro algae

997
00:50:48.200 --> 00:50:51.300
does have really high levels of iodine and that is a concern.

998
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:55.400
Among Regulators about whether you know

999
00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:58.200
consumption of it and and how how we

1000
00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:02.400
can make sure it's safe for people to eat. So obviously seaweeds have

1001
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:02.800
been a part of

1002
00:51:03.700 --> 00:51:06.000
various cultures diets for

1003
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:10.200
thousands and thousands of years and we live in 2023 in

1004
00:51:10.200 --> 00:51:13.600
the United States of America. And so there are regulations that we

1005
00:51:13.600 --> 00:51:16.100
need to be aware of and and kind of

1006
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:19.100
develop processes to address

1007
00:51:22.900 --> 00:51:25.100
Thank you. We are coming up to the top of the hours. I

1008
00:51:25.100 --> 00:51:28.300
think. Oh, maybe one or two more questions some of these the

1009
00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:31.200
remaining questions have to do more with sort of

1010
00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:34.100
the composition of kelp than necessarily. The poster is handling.

1011
00:51:34.100 --> 00:51:37.500
But Brandon asks speaking of testing. Does anyone

1012
00:51:37.500 --> 00:51:40.700
have a COA with mineral protein and amino counts

1013
00:51:40.700 --> 00:51:43.100
in the kelp when harvested and then about 10 days later

1014
00:51:43.100 --> 00:51:46.400
on another COA to have some idea of measurement

1015
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:47.500
of degradation.

1016
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:52.400
We did not do that. We did not look at that.

1017
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:56.400
I don't know. I mean again, I don't know how useful it

1018
00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:59.400
is if you guys are interested in the produce perspective. I'm sure Jeff and Eric

1019
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.900
know a bit about how nutrients degrade over time. I I

1020
00:52:02.900 --> 00:52:05.900
think you know, it's not a direct we can't

1021
00:52:05.900 --> 00:52:08.200
necessarily assume that everything that happens in produce

1022
00:52:08.200 --> 00:52:11.300
happens in sugarcult, but I think it can help to understand

1023
00:52:11.300 --> 00:52:12.000
what

1024
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:15.200
happens in other products so that we can look to see

1025
00:52:15.200 --> 00:52:17.000
if they happen in sugarcope as well.

1026
00:52:17.900 --> 00:52:18.700
Jeff go ahead.

1027
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.300
So there is a degradation the

1028
00:52:22.300 --> 00:52:26.100
longer you and again, I think it's very

1029
00:52:25.100 --> 00:52:28.800
important to reiterate this. What I'm going to about to

1030
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:31.900
talk about is fresh produce. There is not necessarily

1031
00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:34.800
a direct relationship to go.

1032
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.800
We haven't tested that so we don't know there

1033
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.800
is at around fresh produce.

1034
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.200
It's produce dependent.

1035
00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:45.400
That the produce does

1036
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:48.200
degrade over time the nutrient level and

1037
00:52:48.200 --> 00:52:48.700
whatnot.

1038
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:51.400
but the general feeling was

1039
00:52:52.600 --> 00:52:55.500
even at that degraded level at the

1040
00:52:55.500 --> 00:52:58.800
very tale into shelf life. You're still

1041
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.500
getting more health benefits from eating the produce

1042
00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:02.600
than not eating it.

1043
00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:06.700
So if if a fresh and again, I'm speaking fresh

1044
00:53:06.700 --> 00:53:07.400
cut produce.

1045
00:53:07.900 --> 00:53:10.300
If a fresh cut produce in a

1046
00:53:10.300 --> 00:53:13.400
bag is going to or tray is going

1047
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:15.800
to cause you to eat more leafy greens.

1048
00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:19.600
Keep doing it because it's better than not eating

1049
00:53:19.600 --> 00:53:23.100
them at all. Is there a slight degradation dependent

1050
00:53:22.100 --> 00:53:24.500
upon product? Yes, there is.

1051
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:30.800
Very similarly related question to that

1052
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.200
Jeff. Was that Derek wanted to know how much of

1053
00:53:33.200 --> 00:53:36.300
the nutrient value would be lost with drying or powdering the

1054
00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:39.000
kelp even if it's used very shortly thereafter.

1055
00:53:41.700 --> 00:53:44.200
I'm not I'm not equipped to

1056
00:53:44.200 --> 00:53:47.600
answer that. I know that there is a reduction in produce

1057
00:53:47.600 --> 00:53:50.500
as well. But I'm

1058
00:53:50.500 --> 00:53:54.100
Eric. Maybe you are but I'm not qualified to

1059
00:53:53.100 --> 00:53:54.500
answer that question.

1060
00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:03.500
Something none of us are qualified together.

1061
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.200
We have one more question in the queue. And so let's let's

1062
00:54:08.200 --> 00:54:11.300
try and hit it boy and asks, has

1063
00:54:11.300 --> 00:54:14.300
anyone looked at high nitrogen modified atmosphere inside the package

1064
00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:16.300
with the kelp to extend shelf life.

1065
00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:20.300
We did not look at that because again the goal.

1066
00:54:20.300 --> 00:54:24.200
This is what I was saying when I when my computer cut out the goal

1067
00:54:23.200 --> 00:54:26.800
was really to design a packaging that was

1068
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.300
very minimal in terms of the requirements for

1069
00:54:29.300 --> 00:54:33.200
the farmer. We wanted anyone to be able to like all

1070
00:54:32.200 --> 00:54:35.300
we all you have to buy to make this

1071
00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:38.300
modified Atmos packaging work is you need

1072
00:54:38.300 --> 00:54:41.200
to buy the bags and you need to seal it somehow with it with a

1073
00:54:41.200 --> 00:54:44.500
heat sealer and we had three different options that kind of like the most

1074
00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:47.700
basic hand operated model all the way up to a processing

1075
00:54:47.700 --> 00:54:50.500
line. So if you were to introduce nitrogen to

1076
00:54:50.500 --> 00:54:54.200
that, then you are definitely entering processing territory. And

1077
00:54:53.200 --> 00:54:56.300
that is probably not then then you

1078
00:54:56.300 --> 00:54:59.600
get into needing to have a food safe, you know

1079
00:54:59.600 --> 00:55:02.000
as a certified facility and all kinds of

1080
00:55:02.200 --> 00:55:06.500
other stuff. So we were really looking for something that we thought might qualify

1081
00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:09.300
as an on-farm activity essentially,

1082
00:55:08.300 --> 00:55:11.000
so no we did not look at that.

1083
00:55:13.300 --> 00:55:16.100
Awesome. Thanks Sam. All right, we are at the

1084
00:55:16.100 --> 00:55:19.500
top Tower. So I'm gonna close us off. I do want to just quickly put

1085
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:22.600
in a plug for the next upcoming farmer Forum

1086
00:55:22.600 --> 00:55:25.500
conversations. We have you can now sign up for these at

1087
00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:28.500
any time on the Hub. If you log into your the greenway

1088
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:32.100
hub.greenwave.org and greenway.org/hub, sorry,

1089
00:55:31.100 --> 00:55:34.400
and there's an events

1090
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:37.600
Tab and the upcoming conversation we have on February

1091
00:55:37.600 --> 00:55:40.400
1st is will be about the upgrades that green Vape

1092
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:43.800
has recently made to its kelp Nursery system and sort of

1093
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.600
adaptations to infrastructure and Technology across the

1094
00:55:46.600 --> 00:55:49.300
kilpatrice system more generally and then

1095
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:52.900
February 9th will be back with the same Market development crew that

1096
00:55:52.900 --> 00:55:55.300
you know love and who will be joined by

1097
00:55:55.300 --> 00:55:58.800
Courtney White Myers at akua to talk about co-packing with

1098
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:01.600
help. So if either of those conversations interest

1099
00:56:01.600 --> 00:56:04.600
you please sign up on the Hub and we look forward to seeing

1100
00:56:04.600 --> 00:56:07.200
you there and thank you all for such really great

1101
00:56:07.200 --> 00:56:10.400
questions and discussion that's was fantastic and a big thanks to

1102
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:12.200
you fresh for joining us today.

1103
00:56:17.500 --> 00:56:19.600
Awesome. Have a great week everyone.
Topics:
Processing + Markets
Related Courses:

Annual Operations:
Harvest
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